Philosoraptor

Actually, it's not every Sunday; it's constantly. Anyone who only prays on Sunday is completely missing the point. And God doesn't need us, but wants us to remember that we need Him, who created us.

Actually, we don't really need him. Groups like Atheists for Humanity, Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers, and people like Thomas Jefferson, Charles Darwin, and Stephen Hawking are proof that we don't need him, or any god for that matter.

Lol...that's about what a Lego character would say to the person that put it together, if it could talk. Proof we don't need God? One cannot prove God exists. Nor can one disprove God's existence; the fact that we as humans have never seen God is not evidence he isn't there. Because, if there is such a thing as God, then why should humans expect to be able to see him? Why must this God do what WE want? Humans want to see, but if God created us, then why should he bow to our demands?

If God is not real, then there is only US, here and now. Life becomes pointless, because if there is nothing else, we have only our own lives to live. And, if there is no God, there is also no absolute Truth. Every truth becomes what we make of it, meaning "might makes right." YOU become your own God, if you decide what is right or wrong for yourself. Or else it's majority rule, and the corporate humanity becomes God by becoming a law unto itself. "Laws of Nature" don't cut it; they're open to interpretation by any fruitcake who so desires. And, if it's right for you, it can't be wrong! Can it? Under that logic, it cannot. Again, without god, you become your own god.

The world was created in a manner that shows evidence of order decaying. All life forms decay, in time; so do non-living objects. Stars burn out, rocks erode, creatures die, dead bodies decay. Thus, one would logically assume that decay IS the natural progression of life, and everything in this universe. Very well; yet Evolution and the Big Bang posit an upwards and not downwards trajectory. They say nothing exploded and created something p, out of nothingness, and then gradually over billions of years a life form finally came alive (again, from that same nothing), evolved itself upwards using nothing, and the earth managed to evolve along with it to become a great place to live. Given the amount of time we've supposedly had to evolve, why then are our bodies still mortal? Why are we still bipedal? Most anyone agrees, the human body is not strong from an evolutionary standpoint; if our minds are what make us strong, then our minds must be more powerful than any other minds on the planet, or else humans would not control this planet. So why then do we have bodies that are pound for pound pathetically weak, compared with other creatures?

The proof of God is all around you, in the atoms that form your body. Nothing so incredibly complex could possibly evolve from nothing.

"Lol...that's about what a Lego character would say to the person that put it together, if it could talk" Are you seriously comparing ME to a TOY?
"Proof we don't need God?" We can do good WITHOUT believing in a god.
"the fact that we as humans have never seen God is not evidence he isn't there" We would've had a photo by now.
"Because, if there is such a thing as God, then why should humans expect to be able to see him" Because if he, she, or it wanted to prove their existence, they would've revealed themselves by now.
"Why must this God do what WE want" If he TRULY loved us, he would.
"Humans want to see, but if God created us, then why should he bow to our demands" If he loved us, he wouldn't treat us like shit, if he loved us, he would allow us to see him, if he loved us, he would've provided SOME piece of evidence of his existence, like a DNA sample, or a photo.
"Life becomes pointless, because if there is nothing else, we have only our own lives to live" Exactly why we don't need him. There doesn't need to be a god for life to have a meaning.
"And, if there is no God, there is also no absolute Truth" That's gotta be one of the most ridiculous things I've heard from anybody in my life.
""Laws of Nature" don't cut it" The laws of nature are already irrelevant.
"The world was created in a manner that shows evidence of order decaying. All life forms decay, in time; so do non-living objects. Stars burn out, rocks erode, creatures die, dead bodies decay" That doesn't really prove anything.
"They say nothing exploded and created something p, out of nothingness, and then gradually over billions of years a life form finally came alive (again, from that same nothing), evolved itself upwards using nothing, and the earth managed to evolve along with it to become a great place to live" Again, it doesn't prove anything.
"Given the amount of time we've supposedly had to evolve, why then are our bodies still mortal?" Hey, nowadays, we can keep people alive WAY past their expiration date.
"Most anyone agrees, the human body is not strong from an evolutionary standpoint; if our minds are what make us strong, then our minds must be more powerful than any other minds on the planet, or else humans would not control this planet" Not proof of a god.
"The proof of God is all around you, in the atoms that form your body" Not proof.
"Nothing so incredibly complex could possibly evolve from nothing" Still not proof.

Okay. You say we can define good and do good without a god. Very well: Define good vs evil. What is it that makes something right or wrong if there is no God to determine what is right and what is wrong?

Also, you insist on defining God on YOUR terms. Which is ridiculous because, if God is real and he created us, he doesn't owe us anything. Rather, we are the ones who owe him everything for calling us into being. Which is where most people have trouble, because people don't like owing other people for anything. But anyway, the only way you'd believe in God is if you'd seen him. Pretty much? Well, if that's the case, how would you even know if you DID see God?! Because according to the Bible, God did come to Earth (Jesus), and men didn't recognize him as God. In fact they kinda had him crucified...so, how would YOU recognize God? Tell me.

You say we don't need God for life to have meaning. Explain yourself. You keep saying "you're wrong" without bothering to explain why. Are you able to back up your statements? If so, do it!

What is the point of life, if there is no God?

Define absolute truth. What are the absolute truths today, if there is no God?

Sure, they can keep bodies alive. However nobody lives much past 110 years anymore. Funny thing, right? Billions of years to evolve, and the best we can do is around 110 years?

I'm merely having this discussion because it amuses me and I enjoy it. For the record, thus far you're looking really bad by not bothering to explain any of your statements. If you ever debate anyone in front of a crowd, you'll get shredded by your opponent.

Anyway. No, I can't prove the Big Bang didn't happen. However humans are supposed to be logical creatures. Which makes more sense: For nothing to explode and create something, that somehow orders itself into something amazing over billions of years? Or for God to create the world and everything in it, which started out orderly and then decayed?

Is decay proof of a creator? No, but it conflicts with Evolution! Because, decay is the pattern of EVERYTHING. Not only life, it extends to everything else as well. Things age and degrade, die. So that's the pattern of what's going on: a steady decline, not improvement. Yet Evolution and the Big Bang state we're actually getting better. Doesn't make sense; why does everything decay and die, yet Evolution says we should be evolving upwards and not decaying?

Is that question REALLY worth asking?

Just because this god supposedly created us doesn't mean he owns us. NOBODY has the right to treat us like shit, regardless of whether or not they're related to us.

How can you be so sure the Abrahamic god is the correct one? What if YOU'RE wrong?

Life doesn't need any god to have a point.

How do YOU know an absolute truth relies on a deity?

But how can you be so sure a deity can explain everything.

If that's true, then that'll make two of us.

How is a deity a more logical thing? Please, tell me.

Death is a natural thing. It's been going on since the beginning of time.

Yes, the question is worth asking. Do you fail to answer because you forgot, can't, or don't want to because you'll prove you're wrong?

I'm not wrong, not in the slightest. I think it's YOU who knows YOU'RE wrong.

And yet you refuse to answer. Why? Define truth, if you can. If you still refuse, clearly you're unable to do so. In fact the only thing you have shown to be able to do is evade my questions.

I'm not proving ANY point but my own.If you think a deity is the ONLY thing that can be a deciding factor, then you need serious help.

No I'm not.

You contradict yourself by claiming there are absolute, i.e. immutable truths, and yet also claiming humans determine right vs wrong. If humans determine what is right, they may change that definition if they so desire. Something that may be changed is not absolute, immutable, unchangeable. Thus if humans decide what truth is, what is right and wrong, then Truth is changing and not constant. There is no Absolute Truth if humans decide.

How many people does it take to determine something is right or wrong?

Yes it does, because it is.

If you need to rely on fairytales to come up with an absolute truth, then you need serious help.But we don't need a go***mn deity to decide what the truth is.

What part of "we don't need a deity for there to be an absolute truth" do you not understand?

Shut the f**k up. You don't know ANYTHING.

OK. What are those truths? Clearly your intelligence is higher than mine, so enlightening. Explain what they are. You repeatedly insist they are real, I get you make no effort to explain them. Why?

I don't need to answer your question. If you were smart like you claim you are, you'd know that.

Okay. I'll make it easier: if there is no God, who decides what is right and what is wrong?

I'm not claiming to be smart. I'm merely asking a question. Which you refuse to answer. You say there are absolute truths apart from God. Very well; define them. If you cannot explain yourself, your argument holds no water. If I start offering statements with no explanation to back them up, my argument is worthless. As is yours now. If it's so easy to explain, humor me. Pretend I'm an idiot and explain. If you still refuse (as I expect you will), there is nothing more to discuss. I say there is no absolute truth, no absolute right or wrong, apart from God. You say there is, yet you will not say what those truths are. By your refusal to explain you only make yourself look like you know you're unable to do so competently, so you dodge the question to try to save face.

I don't need to.

So you've engaged in this entire discussion merely to NOT explain yourself?

If I said that I didn't need to explain myself, you'd accuse me of being unable to do so. And you'd be right. The only person who argues and yet refuses to explain them self is the one who cannot explain.

Sorry bro. Either explain yourself, or prove by your refusal that you cannot explain.

No, I said I don't need to explain myself.

No they're not.

It's not that I can't, it's that I don't NEED to.

So why are you even discussing this, if you have no intention of explaining yourself?

And why do you so definitely not want to explain yourself?

Because the concept of religion is COMPLETELY ridiculous.

So. You merely want to make statements that no one contests. Is that it? Then why are you ON THE INTERNET??? Lol...this is hilarious.

Also, you can't prove a point without explaining it. Just an FYI, in case you were unaware.

We don't need something to decide what's right or wrong for us.

Like I said, we don't need a deity to decide what's right and wrong for us.

And that's a problem, why?

If you need a deity to decide what's right and what's wrong for you , you seriously belong in a mental hospital.

My good sir, you are proving my point very well. If, as you say, men may decide something is wrong, they may also decide to change their minds and say that what was wrong is now right. Because, if men all agree on it, then clearly it is right because according to you man have the power to determine what is right and wrong. So you are proposing Majority Rule. Which means, if everyone but you were to agree you should be in prison, well, they'd be right! Because there were more who thought it was right than who thought it was wrong. If men decide, they may decide ANYTHING. Not merely what you yourself agree with.

Unless you want to impose your own values on humanity. In which case, you are taking the place of the God you claim does not exist.

Just shut the f**k up already!

Yes I can!

If I say I can fly, people will assume I'm lying unless I can prove it. And now, I'll assume you're lying until you prove otherwise.

Why would I shut up now? I'm learning so much from your well-reasoned, in-depth, intelligent insights behind your statements...

We don't need a deity to have an absolute truth.

WE do.

Then what is it?

Ha. So man decide what is right and what is wrong for themselves?

So it's majority rule? Or every person decides what's right and wrong for him or her self??

The trouble with humans deciding what is right and wrong is that in this scenario there are only two possibilities: either each man must decide what is right and wrong for themselves. In which case, there is no crime, because what is wrong for one man may be right for another. So what if what is right for one man hurts another? If they're both doing what's right for them, who can decide one is wrong? No one!

Unless it's decided by numbers. In which case, it's Majority Rule. However under THIS scenario, there is still no Absolute Truth, because people may as a group decide to change what is right and wrong!

Sorry. If there is a god, then God decides right vs wrong; that is Absolute Truth. And if there is no God, there is no Absolute Truth because men may decide what is wrong...but they may also decide at a later date that that same thing is NOT wrong. And thus truth becomes fluid, devoid of absolutes.

But we don't need a deity for there to be an absolute truth.

You do realize that saying that over and over again doesn't make it so? If there is absolute truth apart from God, explain what it is. If you can't, clearly you're unable to continue this argument because you haven't got a leg to stand on. Saying "you're wrong" is worthless unless you also explain WHY. Is that concept completely foreign to you?

Okay. So you say men don't need God for there to be Absolute Truth. However you cannot explain what that Absolute Truth is. You say men decide what is right and what is wrong; yet you cannot counter when I point out that if men decide, then right and wrong changes depending on which men are deciding what it is.

If men decide what truth is, there is no unchangable truth. There is no absolute.

If there ARE absolute truths, those truths cannot be decided by men, or else they could be changed by men. How is this difficult for you to grasp?

And if it isn't, explain why.

Okay. Let's try this one more time:

If men decide what is right and wrong - which YOU say we do - then how many men does it require to decide something is right or wrong? And what if someone else disagrees, as someone certainly will? How many men does it take to override a single dissident when it comes to determining right vs wrong?

I don't need to.

F**k off!

Lol...I'd continue, except I'm starting to feel as though I'm kicking a crying puppy. Sorry to have wounded your tender delicate feelings.

Last thing - if you ever expect to convince anyone of anything, you may want to try explaining yourself. You'll at least look a little less pathetic to your adversary next time. In an argument one must argue, not simply scream their opponent is wrong without bothering to mention why. It's very sad that's all you could do.

Cheers. Better luck next time.

Funny, I was thinking the same of you.

I DON'T F**KING NEED TO!!!!

F**k off!!!!

What exactly are you trying to say here?