Stupid kids

A doesn't get the irony!!!

That is imposible. If all people are "in control" they are in fact the government. "All the people" will never be in complete agreement as to what to do with the means of production, ergo government control. It could be a direct democracy, a representative democracy, ect. But the means of production are therefore under government control.

Think "Library". . . it's the perfect example of a Socialist entity. It belongs to all of us. The Post Office is another example. Public Schools used to be a Socialist entity. In business, worker co-ops are socialist as are Employee owned businesses. Today, The People don't control the government. . . the international bankers do. But, if we return to Constitutional Republic, then even our Public Lands will be Socialist.

All of those are government owned and run and merely used by the people. The government decides thier budget, what days they operate, and even hires the staff. Not owned by "the people" as opposed to government AT ALL!

Not exactly. Socialist entities like the Library were created when the U.S. was a government For and By The People. They still belong to us. However, today's government (controlled by the very wealthy) is increasingly encroaching on our public entities--especially public lands--where they make private profits off of things that should belong to us. When the "government" makes a profit from any public anything, the profit should go right back into the treasury. . . but it doesn't anymore.

Workers co-ops aren't owned by the people, but merely the employees who work there (I'm not saying those are a bad idea, I think they're great) they are still privately owned businesses, just the owners are also the workers. In you definition you claimed that in socialism the government doesn't own the means of production. My point is that is impossible. You either have public (government) ownership, or private. The private my be a larger group (co-ops or corporations) but is still private.

There's a difference between "government" ownership and "public" ownership. For example, in England it was a death sentence to hunt on the King's land--the government land. Public land is also called the "Commons" where everyone gets to use it. There is also a difference between "Public" and "Private" ownership. Most highways are "public" roads. We all get to use them. But Toll Roads are "Private".

So you're saying that if the government manages it, but the the public can use it, then it's still socialism. So the government still manages (but not owns) the means of production. The big problem with that is government leaders eventually realize "the people" ARE one of the means of production to be managed.

Yes, if the government is For the People, then it manages the People's stuff and it's socialism (like Medicare). But, the government does not manage the means of production in the U.S. The Corporations and wealthy bankers actually manage the government.

I'm not arguing that our government doesn't need to change. I'm arguing that socialism has it's own set of ills, and is unworkable once the human component is added (because realistically, humans suck).
So, how do we I reform our current government? One, I believe we need to minimize government, especially their ability to favor one business over another. Businesses would not spend money and time wooing (buying) politicians if it did not benefit them. We need to remove subsidies, tax breaks, and regulations that clearly favor one industry over another (or established businesses over start-ups). The market, when not interfered in by government, is voted on by the people. They choose what, and where to buy. Often choosing the most efficiently (I.e. cheaply) or best made products. Businesses in turn produce what consumers "voted" for. When new inovative (untested) products, entrepreneurs assume the risks in deciding to market it. It is a gamble (and we don't want the government gambling with our tax dollars). I only want the government doing what can't be done by private individuals or businesses (or more often won't, because it's not profitable).

I agree on both points. . . our government needs a reboot and, today, socialism as Marx described it probably won't work. The first thing we need to do is take back our monetary system. The banks have us by the balls. BRICS, the new monetary system in the international stage, is more like what we need--fair and asset-based.

Haha, a great deal of magic is needed for socialism to run smoothly. Thanks for making my points for me, I was gone the last few days and you did it better than I would have. :D