How to respond to religious zealots about Halloween

Pagans have no concept of absolute good and absolute evil. Plain simple. Christians believe in Satan, as a being, and Satanism is actually, a religion which worships Satan as a being. All of those things have nothing to do with Halloween. You may percieve the word 'Satanic' the way you percieve it, but it is not what that word means.

"And even if the word's origin is Abrahamic(Christianity/Judaism/Islam all believe in Satan not just Christians all though the idea it is an entity comes from Greek/Roman paganism), it still would mean that evil in those pagan's hearts guided them into sacrifice and death for false gods. "

When you say this you put your own interpretations, based on a christian culture, into other people's minds. Pagans did not believe in absolute good and absolute evil. They worshiped Gods of death just as Gods of life, Gods of creation just as Gods of destruction. The labeling of those Gods as good or evil came with monotheistic religions, avoiding the cults of the 'bad' Gods, came with monoteism. Celts worshiped the phenomenon of death, simple as that. It's a natural phenomenon like any other. The fact that they made human sacrifices is another story, it is something that existed in all pagan religions, and they didn't do it only on Halloween, nor did they made those sacrifices only to the Gods of death. If people would make those sacrifices on Halloween now, than Helloween would be condemned with a reason, but this way it's a nonsense.

And saying things like 'foolish Drogash' and having that arrogant attitude in general won't make you any more right than you are, neither will it make your arguments any better. It just actually shows how immature and insecure you are, when you can't even have a conversation without trying to put your interlocutor down.

Your first paragraph is a rehash of your previous post.

"When you say this you put your own interpretations, based on a christian culture, into other people's minds." I'm not a "Christian" though so no I didn't base that on a Christian interpretation. How am I putting my interpretations into someone else's mind?

You ty and justify paganism with most of the third paragraph.

Abrahamic monotheism came before Celtic/Gaelic paganism though.

Then you mislead people by saying that human sacrifice isn't apart of the Samhain rituals. You need to do more research.

And why would it matter who they sacrificed people to, if it's wrong in general to sacrifice a person? Again, you try and justify paganism. The only reason they aren't sacrificing people(publicly) still is that they'd get arrested. Not because their morals are different now than they were then.

You want to call me arrogant, fine. But you acted like I don't know what I'm talking about and tried to "explain" it to me in an arrogant way as well, so your "hypocrisy knows no bounds."

You are wrong and I pointed it out so you want to play the victim and claim I'm immature, etc. You're trying desperately to justify paganism/satanic rituals. you're wrong. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you use words like interlocutor, you're still wrong. Trying to feign intelligence when you aren't able to make a point is foolish drogash. :l

Halloween today is not a pagan ritual, it is a party with pagan origins and there's nothing evil about that. Actually, lot of Christians holidays have pagan origins. For example in Europe, there's a habit of making a fire on a Christmas eve, and bringing a big piece of wood in the house, which comes from pagan ritual of summoning the sun to come out. Paganism is not one religion, there were different pagan traditions, just like different shamanic traditions in other parts of the world. Making sacrifices in paganism was not evil, it was perceived as a necessity to please the God and to provide more prosperity. In their perception it was good. And something satanic in a christian sense is evil, cause it's consciously and deliberately hurting someone just to hurt him and to feel pleasure in hurting him, and that's completely another story. There is no need for justifying paganism, it was a dominant state of mind at that time, people didn't knew better than that and that's it. And the fact that they had some primitive elements, like human sacrifices, doesn't mean that their basic concepts and their celebrations can't be good, when they're purified from those primitive assets. And, in facts, monotheistic religions derived from pagan ones. So, having a halloween party is perfectly fine, and even if you perceive it as evil it is not Satanic.

Writing things like 'foolish Drogash' is immature. I read my comment and I don't see anything arrogant in it. To me it seems that you just don't like people to disagree with you. But I might be wrong and I could've been arogant, so it doesn'm matter now.

Yeah, about 'Christian concept', I didn't think you are a Christian, I meant that your concepts of good and evil are based on christianity, or more accurately on monotheism. Pagans did not have a monotheistic concept of evil, they just did what they thought is necessary to please the Gods and have a well being for their communities. Saying that evil in the pagan hearts lead them to human sacrifices and that, that means they're satanic, is a monotheism based misinterpretation. They didn't know any better, and in the bottom line, the basic idea for celebrating death can still be perfectly fine. But that's what I think, I'm not writing a doctor's dissertation, we don't have to agree.

You're so misled kid. You don't think sacrificing a human is evil? And you're retarded to think that Monotheistic Judaism came from paganism. have you ever even tried to read the Bible? I'm guessing no from how you misinterpret it all the time. And you're trying to play the victim yet again. My opinion that you're being foolish and stating it to you isn't being immature, it's being mature. What's immature is the way you handle criticism. And then you want to try and make me out to be some bigot? You're a child if you think that way or get offended that easily by someone criticizing something foolish you tried to push off as facts.

And no good and evil aren't concepts that come from Christianity. And my morality also doesn't come from Christianity. You're like a child in the way you try to make it seem like you're being misunderstood. You're not. I can read your post. And after doing so pointed out your bullshit. You have a weird logic system kid. Christianity gets ALL of it's morality from Judaism in the first place. So if anything you should have tried to pin the blame on that. But still good and evil aren't arbitrary "concepts" they are well defined terms. And everyone knows what evil and good are, except for those who are either confused or intentionally trying to mislead by claiming they are concepts and aren't universal. Good = benefit or advantage to someone or something. And evil = profoundly immoral and malevolent. Which is the opposite of good. No, saying that pagans had evil in their hearts that lead them to sacrifice humans isn't from monotheism, it's from just and righteous behavior. And you probably know that, but you're a contrarian in nature and want to justify paganistic rituals. Nice attempt at making a point kid, but you just come across as misled and foolish. :l

Abrahamic Judaism came from polytheism, Jews sacrificed humans in the beginning too, why wasn't Abraham surprised when God asked him to sacrifice his son? Monotheism arose from pagan polytheistic religion. You cannot say that people in pagan tribes were evil because of human sacrifices, they weren't aware of what they're doing, they didn't have our way of thinking. Our moral code and our level of consciousness didn't exist in civilisation all the time. There are some shamanic tribes still doing things we would find unacceptable, but we don't call them evil. And if you do, then you are really hopeless in understanding how people's mind actually work.

Why do you think I have a problem handling criticism? If somebody has a problem with that here, it's you, cause you get angry which is obvious from reading your comments, and again you are being arrogant and immature by calling me a kid. You can't have a conversation with someone without pestering him, that says enough about how mature you are. And says well enough about how you're able to handle criticism.

What hurts you is that I won't change my mind, that's what you mean when you say that I can't handle criticism. And again, that says enough about your maturity. It's funny that you actually believe yourself, do you read your own comments man?

"And evil = profoundly immoral and malevolent. Which is the opposite of good." This is a monotheistic concept. pagans had no good and evil in these terms. I don't understand how you don't get it, but it doesn't matter, you're obviously not able to think outside your own framework. Don't you get it that they didn't kill people for fun, they made sacrifices to their Gods, in a belief that it will benefit the whole community including the people they sacrificed? You can't be evil if you're not aware of what you're doing.

And this argument started about Halloween being Satanic, which we do not talk about now do we? Yeah, so you can't even admit when you're wrong, and you're proven wrong about that, and now you wanna grab on your idea of Halloween being evil, which is also a nonsense, even if pagans were evil Halloween today has nothing to do with that, cause it's just a party.I made a mistake to write this comment, I shoulda just write a meme to make fun of you, cause you don't deserve better. But I won't put myself on your level, I'm gonna keep my dignity and be a grown up and you go and fall down on the level of insults and arrogance, when you're so weak.

Your 'righteous human behavior' comes from the civilisation you live in, if you lived in a pagan community, were born and raised there, you'd have no problem with human sacrifices. You might say whatever you want, but the entire planet lived that way for ages. The fact that you're not able to detach yourself from the western point of view on things is another story. The fact that you're so desperate to defend the idea of Halloween being Satanic, although it has nothing to do with it, and + your poor level of culture in this conversation, shows that you're just a bit more civilised than these ancient pagans you fail to understand.

*sigh You're still spouting off bullshit and fallacy kid. Nothing new with you. You've chosen the to stay in your cyclical rehashing yet again. You haven't made any relevant points to back up your claims, but you sure think you did.

Let me ask you this though, if you think that the two words/concepts of good and evil are purely Christian and can't be applied to pagans, then why use other English words to describe paganism at all? After all English was developed by Christians wasn't it? And from a pagan culture's language too. Hmm, I guess that means that the words for good and evil and any concepts associated with it by you are also descended from you guessed it pagan words that meant the same damn thing. Satanic is from Hebrew and you already tried to make them all out to be pagans too so that word comes from paganism too using your "logic." But oh no, those words can't be applied to pagans and their rituals. ROFL :l

See how you spout off about stuff you know nothing about? Judaism has always been monotheistic. Read the Bible before you try and talk about it.

The Jews weren't all doing those sacrifices of humans and none of those sacrifices were to the Abrahamic God. They were to false pagan gods like Baal and Moloch.

"There are some shamanic tribes still doing things we would find unacceptable, but we don't call them evil. And if you do, then you are really hopeless in understanding how people's mind actually work." Really dude? Really? You actually believe that bullshit don't you? Evil is an English word for a universal understanding. Your argument stand on YOUR OPINION that evil/good are arbitrary "concepts" when you're flat out wrong. They aren't arbitrary terms, they are well defined terms. You just want to justify pagans and apparently human sacrifice. I bet you support abortion too. Which is the modern day equivalent for pagans I'm sure.

So you reply to my initial comment and keep replying when I reply back, and that's somehow pestering? Let me play a tiny violin while you play the victim some more. You can't handle that paganism is by definition evil and satanic and you're trying so hard to find something that justifies your position to no avail. No I don't read what i write. Are you retarded? You have to be if you think a person can type something without knowing what they are saying.

OMG there you go again in circles with your same bullshit reasoning/argument. good and evil and their ENGLISH DEFINITIONS don't come from religion. Oy vey you're dumb if you really believe that. And there you go trying to justify human sacrifice again. It doesn't matter a person's intent in the ritual, if they are sacrificing humans for any reason they are evil and satanic by the ENGLISH DEFINITIONS. Trying to claim I'm ignorant when you keep glossing over those facts is making you look pathetic kid.

"You can't be evil if you're not aware of what you're doing." Really kid? Really? Are you that naive? If I smashed a babies head in with a hammer and I'm somehow unconscious when it happens, I'm still committing an act of evil. Whether or not I have the "concepts" of evil or not. You're so ridiculously naive for saying that.

"But I won't put myself on your level, I'm gonna keep my dignity and be a grown up and you go and fall down on the level of insults and arrogance, when you're so weak." Hypocritical bullshit you're spouting there kid, nice try though. :l

I won't read your comment, I see the way you talk, so, nothing changed. Pasteurizing is calling me retarded, a fool and a kid. You don't get it that you used those words? What, those words disappear when you read your comments? Or you write your comments in an insanity trance like state so you don't remember what you write?

No religion ever was monotheistic from the beginning. The origin of Judaism is unclear but the most believed theory is that it came from Abraham's family God cult in ancient Sumer. That's polytheistic, and even later Jews do not believe in One God they believed they have one God of their own, between many Gods in general. Actual monotheism comes with later Judaism. And Bible is full of episodes of Jews retrieving to paganism, and the prophets fighting those beliefs.

And as I've said, you missed the point on Halloween being satanic completely, and your attempts of portraying early pagan tribes as 'evil' are funny. And with your perception of the word 'evil' you again prove that you can't move from your western centric mindset. Read about the concept of evil in Buddhism, you might be surprised about what you'll read.

And yeah, I don't justify human sacrificing nor the pagan rituals. They were a habit of people who are primitive when compared to us. They didn't know better and they couldn't have known better. But that doesn't make them evil, it's funny to think that. It's like saying animals are evil cause they kill themselves. You can't be evil without a consciousness about your actions, which they couldn't have had in their communities. "If I smashed a babies head in with a hammer and I'm somehow unconscious when it happens, I'm still committing an act of evil. " Again, a total misunderstanding of human psychology and behavior. No one is saying you don't know that your smashing a baby's head. You believe it will please your Gods and that the baby will be rewarded for it's sacrifice. And you can't know better cause that the only way of life you know. Very simple, but you're not really good grasping simple concepts obviously.

I don't know why I'm explaining this to you, you're obviously hopeless, but nevertheless. Yeah, and a small suggestion, you're not good enough at proving how immature and weak you are. Next time you should bold the word 'retarded', so that it sticks out. And when you write it, hm, let me see... Yeah, yeah, when you write retarded you should write: ( U SEE, I CALLED YOU RETARDED, YOU SEE, YOU SEE HOW TOUGH AND SMART I AM).

By writing it like this I think you'll prove your point and we'll get it that you're immature and hopelessly insecure, and we'll agree with you and end the argument. This way you just way to much of your time and ours too. I mean for your time it's fine cause you obviously don't know how to talk any better, but it's bad for a normal person to waste time on talking to you, so you should just write that in your future comments to make your point in the beginning so that we can end it soon enough.

Yeah, and here he goes again with Satanism. I get it that you understand christianity, but still, the term Sataniel is biblical, pagans don't have it. People who say something is Satanic today, mean on a Satan as a deity. Early Christians could've believed lot of things we don't believe now, but people don't address to that when they speak about Satan, maybe you do, but you're not even a Christian, so you're defending something you neither understand or agree with.

"Evil only comes from the human heart. And it is because we have free will. We have to choose to be either righteous or evil." Exactly why pagans aren't evil, they don't have a chance to chose since they don't know better, their mindset is based upon pagan religions. Evil is a moral concept and moral is not the same in every culture. Moral that derives from monotheism isn't the only moral code on the planet.

And again, they had no monotheistic concept of evil, just as, for example, Buddhists don't have it. But I understand that you don't get that, you are obviously a western centric who thinks the western way of thinking is superior to everything else, and, it is even sadder that you don't get it that you think that way, you can't even detach yourself from monotheistic idea of good and evil to see other people's beliefs as they are, not as you interpret them.

Oh you're back with more bullshit to spout out huh?

You're so retarded. "I get it that you understand christianity, but still, the term Sataniel is biblical, pagans don't have it." You really think I'm saying that pagans believe in Satan? You're an idiot who can't read or you're intentionally not accepting the truth. I said the concept of an entity who controls evil(horned god/devil/hades/lucifer/etc.) comes from paganism and not the Abrahamic religions. If you can't handle facts then don't try and spout off when you don't know what you're talking about.

Even more retardation from you: "People who say something is Satanic today, mean on a Satan as a deity." No, that's your interpretation of what they're saying. What they are actually saying is satanic as extremely wicked or evil, like the damn dictionary says you berk.

And more garbage from your naive mind: "Early Christians could've believed lot of things we don't believe now, but people don't address to that when they speak about Satan, maybe you do, but you're not even a Christian, so you're defending something you neither understand or agree with." Nice try kid, you want to make it seem like I don't know, when the truth is you can't stand how I'm calling you out on your bullshit.

And you go back around in circles repeating the same thing you keep trying to say but are wrong about from the beginning.

And you like to play the victim way too much. You must be a masochist. You also obviously are jealous of the west with the way you try and down talk it. You want so badly to justify in some way paganism and human sacrifice. I bet you're into abortion too. And I bet you get some pleasure out of knowing you're sacrificing those babies. You naive child. Keep trying till you can actually make a point, okay? lol :l

Pagans do not perceive the 'evil' Gods, deities as evil. They are Gods of death, destruction, war, etc, but never Gods of evil. They don't have a monotheism derived concept of evil. 'Good' Gods cooperate with the 'evil' ones. They need each other, they're not opposed one to another. So, that is not Satanic or Sataniel by any of those ways you interprated the word, and Christians actually believe that people who do Satanic things (when they use the word) do things the Satan wants them to do. So, for a change, go talk to Christians instead of just reading about christianity.

Hahahahahah, your last passus if fckin hilarious. I am from Europe u know? :D And I'm a caucasian. And I think abortion is bad (although that has nothing to do with the topic). I just understand human psychology and sociology to know enough about pagans not being evil. They did the best they could. You and I would be like that if we were born in a pagan community. That's very simple.

And again, Pagans had no absolute evil, nor did they have a deity that could be like Satan in monotheism. So, Halloween is a celebration of death and that's it. People don't sacrifice anyone now when they celebrate it (Just like they don't sacrifice anyone anymore to please the good Gods), so, there's nothing evil about it in any way. And I'm pretty much done with this argument, so, bye bye.

Why even bother trying to explain a concept as simple as this to him Drogash? It's like talking to a brick wall. Only this brick wall is rude, stupid and can talk back. Don't even waste anymore of your energy. You have explained this concept so well that even a 1st grader could understand it. Some dumb ass people can't be helped.

Yeah, true. I just try to reach somebody's logic because I believe we're all rational beings and capable of normal conversation... But I guess some people decide to be ignorant and cowards.