Third World Skeptical Kid

Yes, it is what man does to man, but one of the main beliefs of Christianity is that God made people (and everything) how they are on purpose. If he made humans how they are, then he purposefully made them so that they would do horrible things to each other.
It's kind of like designing a game, and designing them to kill each other. You say you can't blame God for what man does to man? In my example, by YOUR logic,you wouldn't be able to blame the designer of the game for what bits of code do to bits of code.

Yet we all know that the game designer would be responsible ;)

You don't need the "free will" card. You just have to realise that God is the Creator and so he has the right to do anything with his creation that he wants.

I'm a Christian. I don't believe in the concept of libertarian free will. I believe all events are fore-ordained by God.

I'm not sure this is really the best place to discuss these kinds of views. But yes, God can do anything he wants, and is most certainly not accountable to anyone for anything. The difference between him and a dictator is that he's God, and they're not. He's essentially good and everything he does is therefore for the most perfect reason. The same doesn't apply to dictators. If you're really interested in this topic I would recommend reading the relevant section of a Christian systematic theology book (some are available free to read online), or (if you want something slightly shorter), a Christian catechism or confession. A good place to start might be the Westminster Shorter Catechism, or the Westminster Confession of Faith, under the heading "Providence" and/or "Free Will."

There are always going to be questions that remain unanswered about God, and God doesn't owe humanity all the answers as to why he does things.

The fact that God hasn't revealed everything about his workings that we want him to reveal isn't a valid excuse to disbelieve the things he has revealed.

I completely agree with you socrates. We are no one to be demanding things from the Almighty Creator, especially for him to prove his existence. He has given us enough proof for us to know by now.

The problem is us and the way we see things, not him.

There is enough evidence, but the thing is that as soon as one accepts the fact that there is indeed a God and a Creator of the universe one must also accept the fact that they were wrong. It would also mean having to hold themselves accountable to God and rejecting many so-called "pleasures" that the world has to offer. Most people don't want to let go of what the world has to offer and, therefore, reject that there is a God at all.

Hi tekbarrier

Just curious to see what you thought about how the Westminster Confession of Faith deals with the issue of God and evil (if you've had a chance to look it up).

OK

What i don't get about the "free will" argument is that god doesn't take it away from certain people at any point, i mean if you just took it away from hitler at some point then millions of lives would be saved.

Someone out there gets it.

Job 9:24 "The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: ..."

The Hebrew word in that verse is better translated 'calamity' - meaning amoral devastating events like natural disasters. When it's translated 'evil' in English currently it adds moral overtones not present in the original language, but was appropriate for vernacular in the 1600's.

NIV, a more modern idea for idea translation, renders the verse "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things." You were quoting the KJV, which is much more a word for word translation with a handful of exceptions.

All that said, you are not lying. The issue is more that you are holding up a translation as venerable rather than the source text.

That's a very fair point for sure. Its a difficult issue; in short, are you familiar with how Muslims don't like many/most translations of the Qur'an into English? Arabic and Hebrew are both are extremely complex Semitic langues. English is Germanic/Romantic in origin and had vastly different evolution. Moving between English/Hebrew is complex and difficult to do well. To solve that problem with Aramaic Muslims limit translations while with Hebrew Christians proliferate translations.

Each translation has to have a strategy with difficult to translate words, some go for a 'word for word' approach while others have an 'idea for idea' approach. In this case, the word might literally translate to 'evil' but based on the idiomatic context of the passage, have a different flavor that might better suit an ideological translation.

Claiming a language difference is not meant to be a 'wax-off' strategy, though it can be used as such if done poorly. If you grant that words have 'flavor' then an understanding of the original flavor of a word in a text can help clarify the meaning of the full text.

I'm certainly not going to contest that the passage is a difficult one, both from an understanding perspective, as well as an internationalization perspective (a 'coming to grips with' understanding).

Likewise. :D Yes - Imgflip isn't the best forum for this kind of discussion, but when the opportunity arises...

I don't think he was necessarily lying, just quoting a brief part of it. Perhaps that was the part he wanted to focus on. But I'm still not clear on why he's focusing on that.

Yep.

God delivers people to their own carnal sin and desire. A prime example of that is President Obama, he came into office stating he was a Christian...but he turned out a liar...the Nation of the United States accepted him even for a second term...he has passed many abominable laws, he has been delivered into his own carnal sin.

I agree with you str8ward. It says basically the same thing in Romans 1:16 all the way to the end of the chapter. Like you said "delivered into his own carnal sin". Like it or not, America is an extremely depraved nation, but as believers we have to stay strong and never give in to what is now commonly referred to as "ok".

This could save you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuer_zvPR0o