BOYCOTT ISRAEL CLUB - Join the club, earn karmic points.

85 views • Made by bicyclist 1 month ago in politics
11 Comments
flipmymeme
0 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
Boycott which part of Israel, exactly? The scientists and leftwing academics? The pack of dates at the supermarket? Not sure that will change much in terms of the conflict.

Or boycott the arms deals with the US?
calronmoonflower
2 ups, 1mo, 2 replies
he mean hate the Jews.
flipmymeme
0 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
Well tbf they didn't explicitly say that. Just anti-Zionist (which is not necessarily the same thing as anti-Jewish) and boycott Israel (the specifics of which aren't quite clear). There are also US Christian Zionists, so it could include them too.
calronmoonflower
2 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
Of course they won't directly say it, it just so happens Jews are bad when they defend themselves from constant attacks, and the lack of direct trade make the stated goal near impossible.
flipmymeme
0 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
Well I guess we'll have to wait for our cyclist friend to clarify when they're back from their road trip. 

As for using force for self-defense, yes Israel has that right, as per Article 51 of the UN Charter. But it's supposed to be proportionate. If this is proportionate defense, I hate to think what disproportionate defense looks like.

Also there are 2 million non-Jewish citizens in Israel: Arab Muslims, Christians and Bedouin, plus Druze, Armenians and others, so a blanket boycott of Israeli products doesn't just mean boycotting Jews; it technically may include and affect all those people as well.

On the other hand, targeted boycotts of companies that invest in illegal West Bank settlements and goods produced there, or the arms trade, might be different.

In any case, outside of making a political statement or attempting to put domestic pressure on the Israeli government, I'm not sure how effective they are in preventing humanitarian suffering.

I'm not sure Netanyahu cares all that much (it's hardly the first time they've faced boycotts) and he still has the backing of the US. I doubt he loses much sleep over global protests either or his international reputation. Protests don't force him to do anything. Weapons (or lack thereof) do.

Actual sanctions like they imposed on Iran (and stopping all arms shipments) might have more impact, but hell will freeze over before the US does that to Israel.
calronmoonflower
2 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
"proportionate" is how you lose a fight and gets people killed. You don't let up until you're safe, as it is shown every time Israel has let up and been attacked again.

And normally after a country conquers land it become theirs, meaning those settlements should be in no way illegal. I'd like to see the hypocrites that keep crying this give the land back to the original occupants, which would cover just about every nation on Earth.

As for boycotts, Egypt and the other Arab nations around this area are involved in blockading just as much as Israel and are just as much to blame. Notice how rarely they get called out? Hamas would also their brothers live and die in misery than live peacefully with Jews.

Do to these factors I say "hate of jews" is the real cause here.
calronmoonflower
2 ups, 1mo
I'd said the sentiment of "hate the jews" itself is part of the opinion he absorbed from others, and didn't come to it from thinking critically on the subject. After all, most opinions are a reflection of the culture we are part of, rather than thought out.
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bicyclist
0 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
calronmoonflower
2 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
LOL, I'm not Zionist. That whole areas is a hell hole and I don't see why anyone would want to live there because "tradition". Let's give it back to the Ottoman Empire's decedents, if they'll take it. Or maybe the Christians.
flipmymeme
0 ups, 1mo, 1 reply
Separate from the conflict and chaos, it's actually a pretty beautiful part of the world. They don't call it the Fertile Crescent for nothing. Also one of the Cradles of Civilization. The city of Jericho/Ariha is one of the oldest continually inhabited cities on earth, with archeological remains dating back around 11,000 years.

That land has a fascinating mix of history/archeology, cultures, ethnic groups, art and cuisine, etc. Also some of the most holy sites for several major world religions (hence it's known as The Holy Land, even if life there today is too often arguably and tragically not as "sacred" as the name would imply). Major holy sites in Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Bahá'í Faith, as well as the Druze and Samaritan religions, are found there.

As for giving the land "back" to the descendants of the Ottomans – whose empire no longer exists – what would that entail? Modern-day Turkey/Türkiye takes control? Palestinians/anyone whose family has lived there for generations since Ottoman rule gets the land back?

Why not the British? Or the Romans/Byzantines? Or the Greeks/Macedonians (Alexander the Great also conquered it)? Or Egypt? Or the Persians (modern-day Iran)? Or Babylonians (Iraq)? Or the Assyrians (Syria)? Or the Canaanites (modern-day Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Palestinians?)? Or the ancient Israelites (modern-day Jews)? Etc.

By "Christians", you mean the Christians (Arab, Greek, Syriac, Armenian, 1st-century Jewish converts?) who've lived there for many centuries (or some of their descendants who converted to other religions), or you mean the Crusaders (France & other European countries?)? Or Southern US Baptists/the Vatican??? 🤔 

It's passed through quite a few hands. Clearly a lot of people want to live there.
calronmoonflower
1 up, 1mo
The problem is the conflict. https://sofoarchon.com/heaven-and-hell-the-parable-of-the-long-spoons/

Many part in the area are actually desert, but the climate overall is extremely varied.

As for the land, Britain gave up their claim, the last to rule the land for that is the Ottoman Empire. The actual people should include many ethnicities that lived on the land for a long time. So instead of any one group proclaiming exclusive ownership of a single, it would be that multiple claims to being a ethnic homeland are recognized. This would go back to the long spoons.
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BOYCOTT ISRAEL CLUB; AMERICAN EXPRESSION; MEMBER SINCE 2001; Earn karmic points for anti-Zionist behavior. BY WAY OF VIRTUE THOU SHALT STARVE THE BEAST