There are Christians in Palestine too, who have been there for generations. (The IDF destroyed an ancient church in an airstrike.)

Apparently a lot of US "Christians" forget that. So much for supporting your Christian brethren...

They think the entire Muslim world is a giant monolithic blob and they're all terrorists who support Hamas or something.

Christians in Gaza are being bombed, starved and killed. Christians in the West Bank are being persecuted.

Support Netanyahu against your own Christian brethren, if you want. What Would Jesus Do?

Personally, I find it pretty sick, immoral and hypocritical, but what do I know? You claim to be Christian, but you're killing fellow Christians? Bit strange. But you do you.

And you know whos fault it is? Exactly. Hamas.

Even if it's Hamas' fault for their hideous massacre on Oct 7th, does that mean 2 million Gazan citizens deserve to suffer, starve and die? None of them asked to be born in Gaza. And most never voted for Hamas btw (to reiterate: last elections were 2006, so most Gazans weren't by definition even old enough to vote in the "elections").

How would you feel if we treated you the same way? Let's say the world decides Trump is a lunatic and decides to bomb the shit out of you.

You maybe even didn't vote for Trump. Or even if you did; makes no difference.

We airstrike your town and kill half your family and blow their brains out and half your family end up burnt to a crisp because we're fighting the "evil Trump regime" that poses a threat to global peace because he's a nutjob.

No one ever even does a full report. You just have to accept it.

If you don't like it, tough. No one even bothers counting the casualties because you're just some American villager no one cares about.

That's essentially what you're condemning Gazans to.

Can you at least try to begin to understand the kind of logic?

How would you react?

You think this is going to destroy Hamas?

There are 2 million people in Gaza.

Probably every single family in Gaza has now lost family.

If you wanted to create terrorists, you couldn't ask for a better environment.

Any sane person in Gaza would become a terrorist now. You would. I would. You know it. And you know it. If your whole family were blown to shit in an Israeli airstrike, you would have nothing to lose. Neither would I. And you would possibly say, F**k it. So would I.

You've lost everything you ever cared about.

You have nothing to lose.

Netanyahu says he wants to destroy Hamas. He's just created 1000 new Hamas's. He's a psychopath.

The #1 reason there can't be peace in Palestine is because Netanyahu is still not in prison. And you are too dumb to see it. He's a monster.

The #1 reason there cant be peace n Palestine is Islam. There will be no peace until every member of Hamas has been killed.

Is it really?

Or is it politics?

The most populous Muslim country on earth is... Indonesia. Plenty of Muslim countries don't have these problems.

Funny how Indonesia is never in the news.

The Netanyahu regime is committing flagrant human rights abuses and you refuse to acknowledge them.

Is it really Islam, or something else? Wake up.

You know the Israeli regime actually supported and even funded Hamas btw.

And plenty of Muslim countries function alright without this kind of stuff.

Could it be that... Israel is a special situation?

Britain created a country for the Jewish people. And here we are.

The UN Partition Plan was bullshit to begin with tbf. How tf could Palestine be a country with such shitty borders? So they f**ked up from Day 1.

1967 borders. Great. Except Israel keeps building illegal settlements on land that isn't theirs.

100% illegal. Does anyone do anything? No. Because the US has a veto.

They're literally stealing land that isn't theirs. It's not rocket science.

Do you think it's right to steal stuff that isn't yours? Are you a thief? Do you side with thieves? Do you believe in the concept of personal property?

You're likely talking to a paid IDF soldier. They have teams (many) that just post anti-Muslim garbage on Social media.
All day long.
Best to make a quick point and move on, not get drawn into their time-wasting support of evil.

Man I wish i was getting paid.

I like to look at these kinds of phrases by inverting the wording:
"There will be no peace until every Zionist has been killed."

It's an exercise in seeing how it sounds to advocate for mass killing.
It feels weird to me and I refrain.

I understand how it sounds, and thus use such phrases extremely sparingly. But it is the truth.

Agree, it's true there will be no peace while Zionists are still alive.

And why do you think that?

On 29 April 2024, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said, "There are no half-jobs... Rafah, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat – total destruction. 'Thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.' There is no place for them under heaven". The Israeli newspaper Haaretz described his comments as a call to genocide.[89]
Yitzhak Kroizer, who represents the extreme-right Otzma Yehudit party in the Knesset, said in a radio interview that the "Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death."[91]
Tally Gotliv of the Likud party called for the use of nuclear weapons against Gaza.[91]
Netanyahu invokes them as Amalek on multiple occasions. In the Hebrew Bible, God orders the Israelites to “utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."[h]
IDF Major General Giora Eiland wrote, "Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist" and "Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieving the goal."[71]
Knesset member Moshe Feiglin said: "There is one and only solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons".[80][100][101]

Anatomy of a Genocide - UN report
“There are no innocents. Yes, children should be killed.” Knesset member Michal Woldiger
880 scholars of international law and genocide signed a public statement saying: "As scholars and practitioners of international law, conflict studies, and genocide studies, we are compelled to sound the alarm about the possibility of the crime of genocide being perpetrated by Israeli forces against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."[468]
The government of South Africa has instituted proceedings, South Africa v. Israel, against Israel at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), alleging a violation of the Genocide Convention.[33]
Israel has called the claim ‘anti-semitic.’
International Criminal Court ruled that it is a genocide, issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant. Also for 3 Hamas leaders.
A EuroMed Rights report released on 18 November 2023, calls Israel's actions in Gaza a genocide
nearly two million people have been displaced within the Gaza Strip.[12][65][66]
Susan M. Akram, the director of Boston University's International Human Rights Clinic, found that there is a consensus among scholars, including many scholars of the Holocaust, that Israel is committing genocide.[67]
In an article in Opinio Juris, scholars wrote that Israeli officials' statements since 7 October indicate intent to commit genocide.[68]
The NGO Law for Palestine compiled more than 500 statements by Israeli political and military officials that allegedly call for genocide.[e][69]
On 11 June 2024, the official Israeli X (formerly Twitter) account tweeted that "Gazan civilians participated in the horrific events of October 7", later citing a statement in a clip stating that "there are no innocent civilians there."[70]
a May 2023 Times of Israel article that said that the only way to achieve peace is to "obliterate" Palestine and that Palestine's existence is "an affront to society, morality, humanity".[74]
9 October 2023, Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant said, "We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly",[80]
On October 10, Gallant said he had "removed every restriction" and was reported to have added: "Gaza won't return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything."[82]
Israeli Minister of Heritage Amihai Eliyahu called for dropping an atomic bomb on Gaza.[85][87]
Israeli energy minister Israel Katz said: "All the civilian population in Gaza is ordered to leave immediately. We will win. They will not receive

And your problem with this?

Or were you just playing along to illustrate your point? If so, my bad. But you can check those stats anyway.

Uhhhh. Quite a few Israelis and Jews around the world regularly identify as "Zionists" in surveys. You do realize that, right? What are we calling for here, exactly? (Not sure I want to know tbh.) So be careful.

https://jppi.org.il/en/17320-2/

So do millions of US Christians. (And I imagine there are plenty in other parts of the world too. This is just the US.) This site claims there are up to 50 million Christian Zionists in the US alone:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/388231185_There_Are_More_Christian_Zionists_in_the_US_than_Jews_in_the_World

This is one of the largest orgs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel [claims to have 10 million members]

https://cufi.org/about/mission/

Per their website [caps mine]:

"For several years, antisemitism, worldwide, has been skyrocketing to levels not seen in decades. In the United States, the story is sadly much the same, except for one difference: CUFI. For the first time in history, an army of MILLIONS of committed CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS has banded together as Christians United for Israel to strongly oppose antisemitism and stand with the Jewish people."

That's a lot of people you'd have to wait for to pass away.

And "Zionism" has quite a few different definitions. It means different things to different people. It doesn't just mean the extreme and narrow sense of "settler Zionist" that a lot of people think it means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Types_of_Zionism

By the way, Muslims (and Jews and Christians and other groups) lived in that land for many hundreds of years, under various different empires, long before the State of Israel was created. Yes, I'm sure it wasn't always a bed of roses. But it wasn't always like this. The presence of Islam alone does not preclude peace. This is far more complex.

Also, Hamas is not just the military wings. It's the entire government (crazy government, but still a government of sorts, in that they run the place). That's a lot of people you'd have to eliminate.

Removing a few terrorists is one thing; taking out an entire civilian infrastructure is quite another. There are teachers and garbage collectors who technically "work for Hamas" as employees. There are numerous examples in history of regimes that fell, and people who formerly worked for their administration still had to find a way to reintegrate in normal life. After the Spanish Civil War, every single person who worked in the Franco administration wasn't simply bumped off. After the Soviet Union fell, the same. Ditto former Yugoslavia, Cambodia, Rwanda, etc.

In any case, trying to wipe out an entire government or bring about the fall of a regime is fraught with problems at the best of times. And doing it Netanyahu's way (by bombarding and even starving an entire civilian population) is not exactly the most efficient way either. Even if he does succeed in eliminating Hamas as an organization (which is not guaranteed anyway), a new one (or several) will likely rise up to fill its place (see Iraq and the ensuing power vacuum toppling Hussein created). And given the suffering, bloodshed and animosity he's now brought about and generational trauma he's inflicted on millions of people, whatever replaces it could well be even worse. It's hard to imagine how people on either side could ever learn to forgive, move on and end the cycle of violence after this. (Although it has happened in various places in the past, so perhaps a glimmer of hope does still remain. But it won't be overnight.)

A whole generation of children have only ever known war and conflict and lost family members. God only knows what kind of future they will/can ever have and the psychological effects they may never recover from. I'm not sure that's how one convinces a population to produce the kind of government one might want. It does sound like a convenient way to distract your voters from your own domestic issues, falling popularity, and scandals though.

I support Netanyahu against your apparently Islamic brethren, the accidental killing of christians is in no way comparable to the deliberate murder of Jews, christians and other innocent people. Every innocent death is a tragedy, and on Hamas's hands. I find it pretty sick and immoral that you support a regime that murders indiscriminately over one that merely wishes to protect its people.

Where in anything that I wrote have I said I support Hamas? I don't, never have, and never will. I don't support any regime that kills innocent civilians (whether indiscriminately or otherwise), whatever their ethnicity, religion or nationality, nor that suppresses and murders their political opponents, or launches atrocious attacks against civilian populations. (The Oct 7th massacre also killed foreign tourists, Thai nationals, and Muslims as well as Jews. This is morally abhorrent to me.)

And my Islamic "brethren" are no different to my Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist brethren or people from anywhere. Why would it matter? Supporting innocent civilians most of whom happen to be Muslim does not mean I am against Jews in any way. That is a big assumption to make.

There seems to be some common misconception that all "liberal" people automatically support Hamas. I'm not sure where that idea comes from but it is simply not true. A lot of "liberals" and pro-Palestine activists do apparently support Hamas. *I am not one of them.* And I am very confident I'm not the only one.

Netanyahu's government has also been accused of extremely serious violations of human rights and there is even an arrest warrant out for him from the ICJ. You have just clearly stated you do support his government (and presumably its actions).

As for the "accidental killing" of Christians, well that's a whole big debate. But I'm not sure airstrikes accidentally target entire tower blocks of people, or civilians queuing to get food parcels. Calling the deaths of over 50K people (or whatever figure you want to accept, if you don't trust figures released by Hamas, but it's more than a handful, I think we can all agree) merely a "tragedy" is lazy reasoning. (They didn't die in an earthquake or tsunami. They were actively killed by a military operation.)

Blaming all their deaths on Hamas to apparently absolve the Israeli government of any wrongdoing is also lazy reasoning and I'm not sure that would hold up in a court of law either. International law has very strict rules on avoiding civilian casualties, even during war time (even if they're not enforced because certain powerful countries repeatedly block attempts to). You cannot simply wash your hands and blame everything on your enemy. It doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

So from my part, if I wanted to, I could equally argue that I find your (possibly unconditional?) support of Netanyahu's actions just as "immoral".

Minor correction:
I meant to say the ICC, not the ICJ. The warrant is out. Whether he'll ever face trial is anyone's guess.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu

What would you have Israel do in their position?

Well that's a very good (and complex) question, actually. I'm not a statesman or the leader of a country. And it's hard to answer such a difficult question in a simple comment. But what I can say is I'm pretty sure I would not have followed Netanyahu's path.

It's an easy question - stop committing genocide. They've always said they wanted to get rid of all Gazans. Netanyahu called them Amalek (Yet ANOTHER genocide in the Bible by everybody's favorite genoSociadal Psychos) and 'Human Animals.
Talmud - The Best of Goyim should be killed.
Gallant - 'We will eliminate Everything.'
Eliyahu - called for nuking Gaza
Smotrich - Total destruction. Blot out the memory of Amalek.

Yithzak Kroizer - 'All of them one sentence...death.'
Major General Eiland - Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist.
Rabbi Eliyahu Mali - Kill everyone in Gaza, even babies.

Netanyahu funded Hamas for years to maintain the BS Jewish Victim Claim.

And if you want to know just how sick this society is - read this: http://alturl.com/yv64q
If you can stomach it.

Problem is they arent committing genocide. They are striking military targets. The fact that Hamas is hiding behind civilians is the problem there.

That is awful. But there are evil people everywhere, why does this change anything?

Former PM Olmert says, ‘Israel is committing War Crimes.’ & genocide ‘there's no moral or operational limitation on exterminating them all, over two million people

Mast said that Palestinian babies are not innocent civilians but "terrorists" who should be killed, that more infrastructure in Gaza needs to be destroyed, and "It would be better if you kill all the terrorists and kill everyone who are supporters."[360]
Republican U.S. Representative Tim Walberg said that Palestinian civilians should have nuclear weapons used against them

In February 2024, lawyers representing Palestinians in Germany filed a criminal complaint against various senior politicians, including Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock, Economic Minister Robert Habeck, and Finance Minister Christian Lindner, for "aiding and abetting" genocide in Gaza.[332][333]
In March 2024, Sydney-based firm Birchgrove Legal referred Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, Foreign Minister Penny Wong, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton, and others to the ICC as accessories to genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity,
On 13 November 2023, the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) sued Biden for allegedly failing in his duty, defined under national and international laws, to prevent Israel from committing genocide in Gaza in the Israel–Hamas war.[98]

Jewish Voice for Peace said: "The Israeli government has declared a genocidal war on the people of Gaza.
"Amnesty is reiterating that Palestinians in Gaza are at grave risk of genocide.
The UNHCR Special Rapporteur on adequate housing, Balakrishnan Rajagopal, stated that Israel's destruction of Gaza "constitutes an act of genocide as well because the purpose of that destruction, exceeding 70 to 80 percent across Gaza, is to make the place uninhabitable for the people of Gaza".[255]
On 13 November 2023, the Center for Constitutional Rights sued U.S. President Joe Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, and Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin.[258][259][50] The suit alleges that Israel's "mass killings", targeting of civilian infrastructure, and forced expulsions amount to genocide,[98][258]
Genocide expert William Schabas supported the lawsuit, saying he believed there was a "serious risk of genocide"

both Genocide Watch and the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention issued statements warning of the imminent risk of genocide.[237][238]

(continued)

In January 2024, a number of prominent Israelis, represented by human rights lawyer Michael Sfard, sent Israel's attorney general and state prosecutor an open letter detailing examples of "the discourse of annihilation, expulsion and revenge".[91] The signatories alleged that the Israeli judiciary was ignoring incitement to genocide in Gaza.[91]

International Criminal Court ruled that it is a genocide, issuing arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant. Also for 3 Hamas leaders.

880 scholars of international law and genocide signed a public statement saying: "As scholars and practitioners of international law, conflict studies, and genocide studies, we are compelled to sound the alarm about the possibility of the crime of genocide being perpetrated by Israeli forces against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."[468]

Anatomy of a Genocide - UN report on the Palestinian genocide
continued:

And? We dont need 880 scholars we need the definition of genocide: "the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethical, racial, or religious group, as such, by committing specific acts with that intent" Hamas is a military organization.

This is why I prefer to avoid using the G-word. That has a very strict legal definition, as far as I'm aware. And it's an extremely serious claim.

While the Israeli government has ofc been accused of committing genocide and cases are pending, I'm not aware that that has been conclusively established in a court of law. I know it's common for "pro-Palestinian" people to use the term, but I think that may actually backfire against the people critical of what the Israeli government is doing. I've been accused by people on the "left" of being complicit or even immoral by refusing to be so equivocal, and hesitant to use the G-word.

Actually, it's not so much that; it's mainly that I think we need to be very careful to be extremely precise on terms. Israel's actions in Gaza may well constitute genocide, but that needs to be decided in court. And also, because bandying about the G-word like that immediately alienates most "pro-Israel" people and it shuts down dialogue, which doesn't really help anyone.

(Like when people insist on making comparisons to the Nazis. Apart from being tacky (and possibly a deliberate provocation towards Jews, being one of the most sensitive topics in Jewish history), at best that's not helpful. There are many examples of human rights abuses throughout history and I don't see why we should always lazily resort to the Nazi comparison instead of comparing what's happening in Gaza to any number of other incidents. The IDF has killed tens of thousands of Gazan civilians & destroyed a huge amount of Gazan infrastructure. But they're not shipping Gazans off in trains to gas chambers in the Negev, & Netanyahu hasn't written a book blaming Palestinians for all Israel's ills.)

Again, it makes people switch off and achieves nothing. Jews arguably know better than most groups on earth what genocide means. So it ends up being an own goal and preaching to the choir.

What I prefer to do instead is acknowledge that what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza *does* likely constitute war crimes, and crimes against humanity. (And Hamas was also guilty of war crimes when they carried out the Oct 7th massacre.) At the very least, the IDF is violating international human rights laws.

If it's eventually definitively ruled in an international human rights court that the Israeli operation in Gaza was indeed a case of genocide, as defined in human rights law, then we will know for sure. Until then, I think it's actually safer to go with what we know.

The IDF has also struck civilian targets. They may claim that militants were using the hospital to fire rockets or whatever (and use the cliché "human shield" argument). But it's still a very murky area. The doctors and patients aren't militants. Tens of thousands of innocent civilians are dead. That's not a joke.

We can argue details til the cows come home but the fact is innocent people are dying, and that is wrong, and needs to stop. It needs to stop now.

Indeed. Tell Hamas to stop calling for the death of all Jews.

Like I said, I don't support Hamas in any way, shape or form. I think they're lunatics.

And God only knows what they were hoping to achieve on Oct 7th. Finally get one over on the Israeli regime and show the Palestinians are actually capable of striking back after years of humiliation, and hitting Israel where it hurts to prove they're not complete pushovers? (Well, sure, I guess they did that, and caught Israel off-guard, but at what cost?) Or pure revenge and to hell with the consequences, no matter how many of their own people die? Who knows?

I'm also scratching my head trying to work out how on earth that attack helped the Palestinian people or made the idea of a Palestinian state more likely. Gaza is now flattened and even if peace happened tomorrow, it would take literally years just to clear the munitions, let alone rebuild the land for people to get their lives back. The land is f**ked for years to come.

It's an utter humanitarian catastrophe and God only knows where we go from here. It's nightmarish. And the perpetrators of that massacre knew that but did it anyway. They knew Israel would strike back with a vengeance and countless innocent Gazans would die.

If they actually cared about their own people or genuinely wanted a Palestinian state and to live in peace, it's a pretty weird way to go about it. So no, I don't support these disgusting people and absolutely want them gone (as in, a new government – not assassinated or bombed to hell in their sleep along with their wife and kids, just so we're clear, because I believe in basic rules of humanity, unlike Netanyahu whose morality doesn't seem to align with most other sane humans).

So please don't assume everyone who is against Netanyahu or the IDF and their actions is automatically pro-Hamas. They've destroyed their own people and nothing good will come of this.

It would be like Iran nuking Israel and getting blown to smithereens. A lot of people on here seem to think that's the main goal of the Iranian regime. They may be oppressive theocrats, but I'm not convinced they're literally on a suicide mission whose main goal is to get the Bomb and then destroy their entire country just to prove a point. Even North Korea isn't that crazy.

I find that a bit of a stretch of credulity.

Even if they aren't committing genocide, how do you explain the huge number of civilian casualties?

Hamas is using civillians as shields. Its their whole plan.

Ah. The old "human shields" defence.

That's as old as the hills.

Indeed.

Maybe you would want to come join us over at the pro israel coalition. imgflip.com/m/Pro_Israel_Coalition

Absolutely. I'd Love to be this guy. https://www.good.is/the-courageous-story-of-the-german-who-refused-to-give-hitler-the-nazi-salute

Is that gonna be like this place but on steroids lol? Think it's safer here in Trump Club tbh.

I'm not particularly anti-Israel and have no beef whatsoever with Israelis as people (any more than people from wherever else in the world), and have met plenty of decent and lovely people from there (even if a few in the population have views I might not quite agree with, shall we say?).

I just want the Israeli govt to stop committing crimes, for the war to end (like maybe much of the world does), for a stop to new illegal settlement construction on post-1967 borders, and harassment/persecution/imprisonment of Palestinians in the WB and destruction of their property, and for both sides to abide by international laws and end the hostilities and so on. (Yes, original, I know. Who on earth doesn't wish for an end to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict? Well, apart from certain politicians maybe... ) Cue the fantasy rainbow unicorns where they all live in peace.

But I suspect it's not gonna be super productive talking to the pro-Netanyahu fan club. You'll have to repost their best memes here if that's allowed.

lol