Pepe the King Prawn

Oh, you CAN. You'll just have to face the wrath of the Tolerant Ones.

No it was really good! It just wasn’t the absolutely greatest life changing experience

Worth the watch just not the “life changing experience” I had been told

The concept is erroneous to begin with. That's why even though the cinematography may be good, I refuse to watch it.

Please tell me why you think it was erroneous (I need to interact to get points)

So, for people like me, who are keen on moral absolutism (the idea that there are universal concepts that defined what is "good" or "positive" vs. what is "bad" or "negative", without denying anyone a chance of redemption), Wicked is a no-go, like many other modern products that highlight a similar concept. Moral relativism has been used as a tool for evil by many corrupt governments, especially in forced re-education camps, as well as by cults.

On the other hand, if we treat the characters as brand-new (clean slate, assume they have not yet done anything as per the original book), then Wicked is fantastic, as it shows that people's perceptions and prejudices are often wrong, as the other often isn't what he or she appears to be (ie. "don't judge a book by its cover"). Gru is an example of such a character (the guy from Minions) - he's jokingly referred to as a "villain" for his absurd shenanigans (ie. "stealing the moon") but he's clearly a good guy. Now imagine they take a legitimately evil character and try to show you that he was a nice guy as a kid but then got bullied and whatnot, and that he's really just rebellious and misunderstood -__- lol

Another example which is a thousand times better than Wicked is "Edward Scissorhands". Now there's a movie that highlights the hypocrisy of society, and also the potential of people to rise and fall and rise again.

Question - did you see Avengers: Endgame? Like, all the movies etc.? I don't want to spoil them (too late?) but I do have a point to make on Thanos and Nick Fury.

Not only do you provide an excellent denunciation of Wicked, you also recommend an excellent alternative-Edward Scissorhands. Bravo.

So I’m gonna get even MORE hate, but no, I have not seen endgame.
I am a bit of a moral relativist myself, so I do love wicked, and the idea that how we are raised or who we surround ourselves with can influence our morals and beliefs. I haven’t read the original book, only the movie when I was a kid, so I don’t remember too much of it. I do agree it doesn’t really align with the plot of the og. I don’t remember the winkies being enslaved, but I do remember the soilders thanking Dorothy when the witch is killed. Do I think Glinda is perfect in the book? Ehhhhhh. I don’t really get why she didn’t tell Dorothy she could just leave in the First place. Maybe so the witch Wouldn’t chase her to Kansas. That’s all I could think of.
I think wicked is a good representation of society as a whole. (If you exclude its connection to the book) This idea that people who are often underestimated or hated are often the ones who can truly understand that the “higher ups” are only viewed as powerful because of the people around them. I think I subconsciously serperate the two pieces of media, but yeah connected to the book it’s really inaccurate. (I could literally rant about this shit for hours)

Thanks for the reply!

This summarizes it best for both of us: << wicked is a good representation of society as a whole. (If you exclude its connection to the book) but yeah connected to the book it’s really inaccurate >>

I won't spoil Avengers then, just wanted to make a point that modern movies are big on moral relativism, but not so big at giving people a shot at redemption. Another example of this is "Green Lantern" (yeah I've seen it LOL XD) where one guy who is literally possessed by a monster who forces him to do bad things gets zero chances at being saved. It's like a lot of modern productions don't want people to believe there's "good" and "evil", but at the same time they want people to believe there is zero chance at change / redemption / salvation. History teaches otherwise on both fronts!

Have a pleasant week :P

LOL sure thing.

So, moral relativism is the idea that morality depend on cultural, social, or personal contexts rather than being universally fixed. Wicked (both the play and now the movie) aligns with this philosophy by demonstrating how labels like "good" and "evil" are subjective.

Elphaba is portrayed as misunderstood and victimized. Delving into Elphaba’s backstory invites the audience to empathize with her. Her wickedness is done away as a label imposed by others, while her evil actions are watered down or painted in a positive light.

On the other hand, Glinda is shown to be a morally dubious character (per universal standards) in spite of her being characterized as "good".

Ultimately, the hypocrisy behind the whole concept is that the people behind the play (and movie) KNOW that there ARE universal values behind the ideas of good and evil, and they lean on those values to recast Elphaba as a good person and Glinda as a not-so-good person. The only commonality they have with the "original" characters from Baum's book "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" is the name and some of the looks.

In the original book, Elphaba rules over the Winkies as slaves, controlling them by fear. She is also actively hostile against Dorothy and her innocuous friends, sending several sorts of enemies to attack them (including wolves). She is also greedy, as she plans to steal Dorothy's magic shoes for her personal gain. Hardly a "misunderstood victim". On the other hand, Glinda reassures Dorothy and her friends, and rather than craving her magic shoes, she teaches her that they are the key to get back home, as well as how to accomplish this. She is widely known to be kind, honest, and just/fair, and never uses her magic to harm others. When Elphaba is defeated, she declares that the Winkies are now free (rather than ruling over them or ignoring them with the potential of chaos or someone else ruling over them). She also helps Dorothy's friend find fulfillment in life.