Ya know what they do to traitors....right?

They have a little bit of a difference than the last first couple.

A word of caution. In the future, be sure to blot out names of other users when you post a meme like this, otherwise you could get the meme taken down

A better question: How did the entire Federal level of government fail so badly that Americans eventually concluded Trump was the best option in 2016?

A better question, how does disinformation trick so many people so badly? Maybe MAGATS would be good patriots if they weren’t lied to. We will never know!

No, bad argumentative route. Disinfo is flung around by both sides and the left is just as guilty as the right IF NOT more so.

Plenty of moderates voted for Trump in 2016. Cut the insults and the bad assumptions out; Why was such a wild candidate popular? Because people are fed up with Washington as it's become over the last few decades. We need to address that, not throw up our hands and panic that 'Make America Great Again' resonates with half the country.

Incidentally, do you ever watch Frontline documentaries? They're free on PBS and their website. They've got two great ones on what American healthcare and education do poorly and what they get right.

No, I don’t really watch TV.

They're really good! If you ever have an hour or two to spare then I highly recommend giving one a watch.

Thanks, seems legit, no promises.

No worries, life is busy for us all.

Expand on that, what are they fed up about?

Each side had its own bones to pick with the other, but the partisan divide has been growing in America for decades. You can look at Pew Research and see the numbers there. For a sense of tone, go watch the PBS Frontline Documentary 'America's Great Divide'. It's a longer one, but SUPER well done. Details how that split grew during the Obama presidency (Tea Party movement , etc) and was capitalized upon by Trump. After the financial crisis and other events, regardless of why they were actually caused, people wanted to flip the bird to D.C as a whole and Trump was their man. It didn't help that the Democrats nominated Clinton, who was easily the most establishment-style person they could have chosen.

The feeling didn't really last after the 2018 midterms. Trump was too divisive and pugnacious to channel that power for long. But he did win because he tapped into a growing sense of resentment across the board. I think it's the same reason so many maverick governors are extremely popular in their states (DeSantis, Newsom, Noem, etc).

Thoughts?

Shortly after the Tea Party movement is when I started slowly getting involved into politics. I thought the Tea Party was a novel idea that was kinda cute - didn't know anything about it. Still don't really. It has Matt Gaetz name on it and I believe Jim Jordan. Will check now... [checks] Yeah. They were involved. I'm seeing reports that this movement was doing the "Come and express your anger" that they later berated supporters of the BLM movement for later on. But we're getting off track.

With Trump in mind and extending the benefit of the doubt to politicians of the right, I have to wonder where the line exists between representing your constituents and choosing "Right v Wrong." Considering everything Trump has done, everything he has his hands in or on, the question of whether or not he's a criminal is no longer that. The question is, what is he a criminal of? To that, the politicians of the Right have bent over backward to protect him from legal prosecution in office and out of.

HRC didn't really connect well with her base, her PR was playing to a specific demographic and she didn't do enough to change that, unlike her would-be predecessor. The election doesn't surprise me now, knowing what I knew. But I was surprised then that we permitted someone with so many scandals into office. It was unheard of, and a bad omen that we were sacrificing our principles in ethics for our leadership for... whatever you wanna call it. Power, a message? The most prominent message I heard was "Make Libs cry." (or something to that effect.)

I'm happy to see that the house of cards has collapsed on itself and all the negative energy they put out has come back to hit them twice as hard. But I'm saddened that it had to happen.

Tea Party was an attempt to really take the Federal government down a peg or two in favor of individual and state power, the thought process being that the country would be better for everyone if the political horizon was thereby 'broadened'.

But then the narrative shifted. "The establishment hates us, Obama made fun of us, Clinton called us deplorables...so why not elect someone morally deplorable who'll act how we feel, punch them in the face, and actually fight for the little guys that DC ignores?"

That was the general sense, inasmuch as I understand, going into the 2016 election. Enough people decided that they'd been played long enough, in actuality or in perception, and ergo the ends justified the means.

The cult of personality that's grown around Trump since is distinct from the real power he channeled at the onset of his Presidency. But I think the lesson to be learned is that America isn't a country where one singular moral or economic vision can be lived due to how pluralistic we are, but we've gradually become a nation where two establishment camps have (more or less) arisen trying to impose exactly that. Everyone swept up in that was just...done.

I read about that, too. I had written off the "establishment" as beyond my means of control or influence so I didn't let it bother me.

My issue came into focus when everyone who would write in a text channel "TRUMP 2016" was a dick. I had heard some things about Obama how his health care didn't help everyone. I didn't know their situation and I couldn't see it personally, so their testimony was worth a grain of salt to me. I do know that the ACA bill helped me get asthma medication and I wasn't living day by day trying to breathe. Yet, be that as it may, it didn't help some. So the joke was "Thanks, Obama." Then, later I saw that he owned it in a bit where he tried to dip his large chocolate chip cookie in a glass of milk that was too small, and he blamed himself "Thanks Obama." He said.

That was it, really. Well, and Mitt Romney had said something about repealing RvW, and I wasn't okay with removing the freedom of choice from women who had to endure - ya we've talked at length about that.

But then comes along Trumpers citing all this stuff about Benghazi (which didn't even really come across my news feeds and something about emails (that's how I perceived it at the time.) I understood my positions and was repeatedly placed into another camp by these MAGA people who enshrined the motto "F**k your feelings."

Like... lol. Excuse me? I don't know you, and that's your slogan off the get-go? Yikes. After that it was four years of "owning the libs" and "Make liberals cry again 2020." Those people get no respect from me, and never will because they'd never let themselves apologize for their bullshit behavior.

Indeed. It's one thing to use humor because it's funny. I love the 'Thanks Obama' joke. Of course he didn't stub my toe, but it's funny all the same.

But these days the divide is just being used as an excuse for people to spit acid at those on the other side. They hear you voted for one guy or the other and instantly let fly with, "MAGAT, Demonrat, DemocRat, Trumptard, Communist, Fascist, misogynist, woke, etc".

It's one thing to amp up your base because you believe you're right and they're wrong. It's another to whip them into a frenzy by convincing them the other side is actually inhuman. There are very few issues, I feel, where the proponents and opponents have zero legitimacy to be found in their arguments. Ergo, I get irritated more than anything by people who act that way towards the other side of the divide.

Heck, it took me all of one day back here to be told that I was a chauvinist Fascist because I voted for Trump...and that's it. I know the Politics stream is chock-full of people who deride anyone who voted for Biden as thoroughly woke scumbags who hate American prosperity etc...

C'est la vie.

Did they ask you how you felt about the vote now? Do they ask you of your disposition of the guy now? I'm reasonably sure you wouldn't vote for him again in that context... But that's not the point, and not something we need to get into.

This goes for both sides, and that's why I've been trying to listen closer to the right is that when they make an accusation, you gotta ask "Why do they feel that way?" (as I asked earlier) Is there any weight to what they're saying for me? Is there any weight to their reasoning?

I can understand why they would say that, but coming out and jumping to say that immediately is a bit extreme. My first approach when I am attacked is what my therapist does. He finds something he disagrees with or doesn't fully understand and he says "Let's explore that..." then, he'll proceed to ask me questions about my stance and why I feel that way. He'd ask me to check what's realistic and what isn't. What's within my locus of control versus what isn't. Because of this, I've had a much easier time since ... forever.

Gonna level with you man, abortion is the only reason I voted red this past Presidential election. Make of that what you will, but I've never been a fan of Trump (wasn't old enough to vote in '16, age confession). It irritated me that my first Presidential vote was for Trump. If the Democrats had nominated a truly good guy who really represented my views on life and dignity it would have been no contest; I think the Democrats are too obsessed with identity politics and are overzealous about making a clean energy transition, but they're on board with free trade, actually want to help Ukraine (which I, due to being a second-generation American with a Ukrainian family name and a bloodline to match, absolutely support), overall support investing in small modular fission and large scale nuclear fusion power (which I believe is the energy future of the world), and in general are truly motivated by a genuine desire to harness the power of markets and free enterprise to help those who, because our world is imperfect, truly need it.

You can say a lot of what I just said about Republicans too. The moderates in each camp are truly not so different. Tons of want the exact same results as the Democrats do, we just want to achieve them in a different, slightly less-zealous way. But Trump was my absolute bottom-of-the-barrel pick because he's always been a narcissistic balloon. I recognize that my properly-Catholic stance on abortion is not popular in this country and I accept that it makes me seem unreasonable and pond scum to many, but it is the duty of everyone to act on their beliefs. My hope is that one day one side or the other actually comes to represent one I could support without pinching my nose. We'll see if that happens. I've got an idealistic streak that I think will only die out, if ever, after a long life of crushing disappointment haha.

[RIP, end of the comment chain. If you have a reply you can pop it off to any of mine further up.]

I think newt and the 'moral majority', were the first spike in the log leading to the split we have today. (and yes Frontline is one of the best news shows to ever exist)

I think it was the flashpoint in a political crisis that had been brewing for a while.