Is abortion ever justified?

If a 10 year old girl gets raped, and she’s pregnant.

A very tragic and sad situation for that young girl. No person at any age should be raped. Can you give me a moral or medical reason why she should have to get an abortion in order to go on with her life with the least amount of trauma being added to her already traumatic situation?

1. It may be unsafe
2. Who tf is gonna take care of the child?
3. One may argue that giving birth at age 10 is more traumatic than a successful abortion
4. It should be her and her parents choice, not some misogynistic man in SCOTUS’s choice.

1-3. Did you know the youngest girl to give birth was only 5, for some odd reason her parents only noticed her tummy at 8 months (sounds pretty dense to me?) The doctor who detected the pregnancy knew that an abortion at that late stage would have been more fatal to her than a c section, so then there would be a dead baby and mother. Her parents raised the kid as if it was her brother. Adoption is always a possibility. They both grew up healthy and she got married and had another baby at a much more reasonable age. There are many stories like hers. Although I'm in no way advocating for child rape and child pregnancy statistically, the majority of abortions are by healthy women of age who are totally capable of giving birth but just not wanting to be inconvenienced. Advocates of abortion use the less than 1% to demand unlimited abortion in every circumstance.

4.It was a panel of mysoginistic male SCOTUS justices who legalized abortion based on a phony hearing of a woman who lied about her pregnancy because she was paid to do so by mysoginistic men who just wanted unrestricted sex all the time from objectified women

ok
i get your point
but i still disagree.
it’s ok, we can think what we want!

We can think what we want.... if it brings about the deaths of millions?

*cough* COVID *cough*

*cough* the Holocaust *cough*

i don’t see how that’s relevant. i’m not a holocaust denier

I'm willing to change my views on abortion if you can prove to me how it is better for women, for babies, families and society in general.

You can say that to yourself all you want, but you already know what I’m going to say, and that hasn’t “convinced” you in the past. I’m sure you’ve had this conversation with a ton of other people too.

You said re: abortion "its ok we can think what we' want" even thoughts that are harmful to other human beings?"

In real life? No. But here, on imgflip? Let’s be real with ourselves. Do you really think that I could change your views on abortions? No. If one day you showed up and you were like “I support abortions now!” and someone asked you why, I’m nearly positive that you wouldn’t put yourself in a position to say “Oh yeah, some kid on a website called imgflip convinced me”

Go ahead tell me how abortion has been the best thing to happen in our society... I'll wait

I never said it was the best thing that happened in our society…

How has it been an improvement for the life of the average woman ?

It doesn’t have to improve the life of the average woman. Does cancer treatment improve the life of the average woman?

Overall a treatment meant to save lives by definition should improve life. Does abortion save lives?

Yes. But not for the average woman.

Well, having a child before you want to, such as in the instance of being raped, can cause your body physical harm if it hasn't matured enough.
I'm not biologically female, but from what I understand, babies are big, and if the pelvis is too small, it can cause serious and life threatening injury to both the mother and the baby if a girl had a child before they're done growing

There's been many cases of adult women with small frames giving birth to larger babies, usually c section would be the route they take. Of course a child giving birth is different but look up the cases of youngest mothers on earth. Not that I advocate for this to become a norm but the human body is an incredible system and has been known to adapt to extreme situations.

I don't want people to be doing abortions left and right or anything, but I do know that it could cause serious complications with some people

"Can you give me a moral or medical reason why she should have to get an abortion..."

"Should have to" isn't really what people are advocating for. "Should be allowed to" is what they're advocating for.

Ok. Why should a woman be allowed to get an abortion?

I would say because she has the right to

The right to do what?

The right to have an abortion

She had the right to end the life of the human inside her, is that correct?

She had the right to control her reproductive choices and body

Does abortion save lives?

"Yes. But not for the average woman."
What do you mean, it saves lives of only certain women?

Yes. For instance, did an abortion save YOUR life?

Hmmm. Well I'm gonna go with no. Because I'm alive and my single, dirt poor mother from a 3rd world country decided to give birth to me versus toaster bath me. She still couldn't care for me despite her best efforts and i was put up for adoption and taken in by an amazing family then went on to have children of my own. (True story btw)

I know it’s true. Lucky you. But its not like that for everyone.

Show me an instance when an abortion saved a woman's life.

I knew you were gonna ask that. But please dont read this article right now because i wanna keep chatting with u https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/18/opinion/abortion-pregnancy-child-roe.html

Well lucky for you I'm not paying to read it. That was an opinion article by a woman who had an abortion at a young age. I'm looking for a medical report of the lives saved though abortion. At least a doctor's perspective on abortion saving lives and being medically necessary.

Go browse incognito and you can read it. The New York Times website, like many others, only allows you a few searches/articles without you making an account or paying. A useful trick i’ve discovered is to browse incognito or private browsing because it resets the limit every time.

The only time any abortion could possibly be justified is if it is in preservation of the mother's life. Any other abortion is altogether unjustified, and within that situation it should be performed in such a way as to give the baby the best chance of survival.

Thanks for commenting 😊 can you give me a scenario in which continuing a natural pregnancy would result in the mothers death? Let's cross ectopic pregnancy off the list because it is not a viable pregnancy in the womb and so removing the fetus would not be considered an abortion, according to planned parenthood's website and even pro life doctors.

Mom’s water breaks at 20 weeks. She develops a fever while in the hospital. Need to deliver the baby or risk her dying of septic shock.

Interesting you said deliver the baby and not abort the fetus.

20 weeks is awfully tiny but it's not out of the realm of possibility with the advances in medicine to save both the mother and baby.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01517-z

“Interesting you said deliver the baby and not abort the fetus.”

I think it is fine to call a fetus an unborn baby or baby for short. And I used the term deliver as an ego defense mechanism. Doctors will perform the procedure they think is the safest.

According to the Guinness book of records the youngest baby to survive was at 21 weeks 1 day. Of course, the measurements used for dating are not 100% accurate so it could have been a little more or less.

Mom diagnosed with cancer. Chemotherapy will kill the baby.

Can you link an example of this happening? Is it better to give a treatment to a woman to save her but the side effect might be injuring the baby or just outright kill the baby?

I can’t link you and example here is a quote from an article

“Sometimes doctors may recommend delaying or avoiding certain treatments during pregnancy. For example:

During the first 3 months of pregnancy, some cancer treatments are more likely to harm a fetus. So, your doctors may recommend delaying treatment until the second or third trimester.

Some treatments can harm the fetus at any time during pregnancy. Doctors try to avoid using these treatments until after the baby is born. For example, radiation therapy is a powerful treatment that uses high-energy x-rays to destroy cancer cells. Depending on the radiation dose and which area of the body needs treatment, there may be risks to the fetus throughout pregnancy.

When doctors find cancer later in pregnancy, they may recommend starting treatment after the baby is born.

Doctors may recommend waiting to treat some specific types of cancer, such as early-stage cervical cancer, until after the baby is born.”

https://www.cancer.net/navigating-cancer-care/dating-sex-and-reproduction/cancer-during-pregnancy

Personally I have known someone who delayed radiation therapy and died after the baby was born. I think I’m going log off and have good cry now.

All of these quotes basically say cancer treatments should wait until the baby is born. The pro life stance says that if a life saving treatment is meant to cure a patient and the unintended side effect could be that an unborn baby is harmed by it it would not be the fault of the woman. The principle of double effect is basically that doing a good might bring about a harm but since the harm is not intended there is no culpability. Abortion is doing a direct harm (killing a baby).

I'm sorry about your loss, it's such a difficult thing to lose a friend to cancer. She must have decided to go through with the pregnancy anyway despite the risk.

I didn’t want to lie and make you think this dilemma is more common than it actually is. We are definitely talking about a rare occurrence. The quote included all possible scenarios for cancer treatment during pregnancy. There are many different types of cancer all with different treatments. 3 of the 4 scenarios were situations where delaying treatment could be safe. In the 2nd scenario there could be risks of causing malformations or death of the fetus depending on the exact treatment. If it was an aggressive form of cancer delaying treatment for a couple months may be disastrous, if you could even expect to live that long. Based on your meme history I’m guessing you would probably choose to delay treatment, but is that a fair choice to force on everybody no matter what their personal believes or situation are? I’ve had the choice made for me before and I wonder sometimes how things would have been different if the choice was given to me. Impossible to know.

“She must have decided to go through with the pregnancy anyway despite the risk.” Not a friend but an acquaintance, but still sad. And yes she did know the risks.

"Based on your meme history I’m guessing you would probably choose to delay treatment, but is that a fair choice to force on everybody no matter what their personal believes or situation are?"

Faced with that situation, I would seek guidance from my doctor, probably seek several opinions and see which route would be the safest for the baby and I, seek spiritual help and guidance through prayer, I believe miracles are always possible but not always granted.

Like I said my Catholic faith teaches that opting for such treatments would not be the same as outright killing the unborn baby, the death of the baby would be an unintended effect of the intended cause of curing the cancer so it is different than an abortion. We never intend to stop people from exercising their free will, they will do what they want anyway. We just seek to provide the moral framework for such grave decisions as deciding when another being's life begins or ends.

Sorry, I was distracted when I read your comment earlier. After rereading it I realize did not say what I thought it said. Thanks for the polite clarification.

No worries, I'm glad to have made it clear. I have enjoyed our discussion and hope to see you back sometime 🤗

bro why’d u delete that
i wanted to read that

Typo

ah ok
check ur memechat

If you would not consider the killing of an ectopic baby to be an abortion, then I can't think of any instance where such a pregnancy would result in the mother's death.

There really aren't that many scenarios in the medical field that would require killing one human in order to save another. Abortion in general is a decision made by healthy women who just don't feel like having a baby now. It would interfere with their career or education goals or they feel lacking in some way to be able to adequately raise a child. Never a reason to kill a child. https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2005/reasons-us-women-have-abortions-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives