1. The U.S government has been subsidizing farmers since the 1930's when FDR, who was hands down the biggest proponent of stripping power from local/state governments the White House has ever seen, decided to implement the AAA.

2. We didn't actually lose the trade war with China. We backed off because it was stupid, but China has far more to lose than we do in a real trade war.

1. That doesn't make what I was saying untrue, if anything it subsidizes my point. The farmer subsidies is some of the biggest socialism in the world ever.

2. Stupid trade wars with china are not in the interest of anyone, much less America. Trump didn't run to make America stupid again, but that's what he did and his fans don't care because they can't understand complex issues.

Well no kidding. FDR was THE quintessential "big government does what it wants" guy. He didn't identify as an socialist, but his policies were geared towards expanding the Federal government and making people directly reliant on it. He clinches my No. 3 Least Favorite President spot for that reason, though there are others too.

Never said it was a good idea. What I'm saying is we can absolutely destroy China's economy if we need to. That's just not beneficial to either of us.

I guess as long as we can destroy their economy, we have some leverage.

Well it's simple. Their economy is almost entirely based off manufacturing and export while ours isn't. Logically, cutting off trade hurts them more than it does us.

They can't bite the hand that feeds them.

F's in the chat for that dude in another second or so.

Right when he was so happy too.

That link I supplied you shows. That the majority of the three exports that those subsidies benefitted are largely exported.

I wish we could enter a tiered tax system for such subsidies. I don't eat soy beans, why should I have bail them out by to paying for their failure?

Ooh, clever!

However, I have a sneaking suspicion your life isn't entirely soy-free: https://ncsoy.org/media-resources/uses-of-soybeans/

I imagine that similar trends are seen nationwide.

I also haven't bought any leather last year I should be tax exempt from that too. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/3-reasons-farmers-hurt-by-the-u-s-china-trade-war-still-support-trump

I think you missed the point of my tier system. The goal is not to exempt people from paying taxes because they don't like something. Everyone pays taxes. What I was proposing is an extra opt-IN tax if you wanted a government health plan or education assistance. Those are controversial issues and to me no other clear or fair solution presents itself.

I didnt state whether or not I liked those products. I simply dont use them..

I would like to pay less taxes on subsidies for these farmers than the next guy who uses them. Healthcare is just as much as part of commerce as farming is.

With very limited exceptions I don't think we really get to decide where Congress decides our normal tax dollars go. Hence why I want an extra opt-in program, rather than the ability to opt out of paying for a normal one funded by all.

It's a fine but important distinction.

As far as functional policy goes, I again have long been torn on agriculture and don't know whether I support or oppose the subsidies, which in turn would influence how I continue this discussion.

Unfortunately not as I am allergic to soy.

You don't ever use particle board? Bio-diesel? Organic solvents? Etc?

Lots of non-food stuff we use involves soy. It's quite the useful lil' bean.

Totally not trying to BBQ you here or even defend soy subsidies...I'd just be genuinely surprised if you didn't use any soy whatsoever as a consumer.

Not in the last five years.

Regular petrol only.

Febreeze 409 windex ant killer bleach... no... I dont imagine so.

Well, I for one have spent the last couple of years thinking about our farming subsidies and I honestly don't know how I feel about them or whether policy should change.

Part of me wants to say, "let the market decide" and throw them to the economic wolves, but part of me really empathizes with FDR and his desire to preserve American agriculture as an institution.