Socialized medicine

Have you ever been to a DMV office before? They are notorious for being the pinnacle of inefficiency. I personally am in favor of the government having something like Medicare for all, but I don't want the government to be the only player in the health insurance game, as I don't want my healthcare to be bogged down by the same inefficiency that plagues the DMV and other government agencies.

So not the idea itself, just the inefficiencies that haven't been resolved about it.

In that case, what do you think of Hospitals lowering their prices

Well in the US, there is no listed price for a procedure, like you would find at your local store. That means they can pretty much charge whatever they want. They do this because they know they can charge insurance companies way more for a procedure than they could some individual who pays out of pocket. I agree healthcare costs should be lowered, but first, we need to know what the costs actually are. Transparency is the first step in building a better healthcare system, in my opinion.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20200615.566069/full/

We need, at the very least, easy access to insurance, sensible pricing where the main aim is to provide a service, not to make profit. In Canada, for example, the antipsychotic abilify is sold for just $4.65 in US dollars. In the US, that same dose costs $34.51 on average. That is insane. That is absolutely insane. That's why I say that, even though the NHS has been broken time and time again, it is still better than the abomination that is American healthcare. I could go on a whole rant

I know you might not like it because Trump did it, but he signed an executive order that will make hospitals release their prices publicly, so that should help some.

As for high medicine prices, I am very hesitant about the idea of government control of drug production, since all ways a government can take control of people (such as by holding back medicine) or take money from the citizens will happen in time.

I know it will sound like the cliche free market answer, but I believe allowing more competition into the market will drive down the price. This would be one of the places I would be fine with subsidies, which could be given to smaller medicine manufacturers to get them into the market.

It hasn't driven down the price for a real while

Yes, healthcare is EXACTLY the same. What is with you people.

Maybe in Canada, but not so much here in the US. Why do you think so many Canadians come down here when they need their medical treatments? Wait times in Canada are a joke.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-03/canadians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

https://torontosun.com/news/national/canadians-continue-to-leave-the-country-for-health-care-says-new-report

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/canadian-medical-tourism_n_5949b405e4b0db570d3778ff

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2018/06/11/canadians-are-one-in-a-million-while-waiting-for-medical-treatment/?sh=302263433e7d

https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadians-come-to-america-for-better-care-1514410218

Now I'll be the first to admit the US healthcare system sucks, but yours isn't so great either. Hence why I support a middle of the road Medicare for all option with the option to go the private route as well. That way, you at least get more of a choice.

Here's one reason.

So I assume the right to stay alive is a service too?

So you're saying that in exercising your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that it's okay to violate or deny others their rights?

I will just say that people of good intentions should be able to work out a system where those who need health care, can get health care. I believe that such a system can be worked out in an agreeable way to all parties.

As a counter-example to what I believe, if the state controls health care, then by definition they will control services provided (and that's a can of worms we don't have time nor space to get into on imgflip, imo) and also salaries for health care workers. I don't know about you, but to me there's something fundamentally un-American about the govt telling a certain class of workers the most amount of money they can make.

And such a system that would be agreeable to both parties would be mandatory health insurance provision for Employers

Said one of the two parties.

When one of the parties says it's their way or the highway, the chances are quite good that what they're trying to impose on the other party is not agreeable to both sides.

Well, what would be your solution to the problem?

My thoughts on that are two-fold. First, it's a problem of such complexity that it can't be worked out on imgflip. So no, I don't have a sound bite solution to throw out, similar to what you did. Also, since what you suggested is a sound bite solution, it's certainly not nearly comprehensive, so it can't be considered an actual solution.

Why is that? First, the term "Employers" that you used is a bit vague. Let me explain by asking you a question; would you consider a small business with, let's say ten or fewer employees to be the same "Employer" for the purposes of your solution as a larger company, with 100 or more employees? What if the small business cannot afford to offer health insurance? Do they lay off half of their employees, so the other half can be covered?

Next, you used the term mandatory in combination with employers. When I see something like that, I see the govt imposing a "solution" onto business, when the problem isn't necessarily theirs to solve.

Who says employers have to offer health insurance? Sure, those that can do so generally do, because good benefits are what can attract top workers. That's the free market in action.

It gets right back to my original point, which is you, nor anyone else, has a right to the labor or services of another person. We used to have a system in which the labor and services of others was mandatory. It was called slavery. Sure, mandatory health insurance from employers is not slavery on a scale equivalent to the slavery we had in this country, but it's economic slavery, and that's not a good thing. At least not to someone like me, who believes that freedom is the bedrock of our system.

I will throw in a personal anecdote regarding ObamaCare. We were told rates wouldn't go up, but nobody believed that, right? I didn't. But, I also didn't mind paying more for my health insurance under ObamaCare, because I think like most people with any humanity, I'm willing to pay more so that others who are considered less fortunate could have health insurance. So from the day ObamaCare started, until the day he left office, my insurance rates doubled. And still, not everybody had health care. How much more will I have to pay to achieve that goal? My wallet is not an unlimited source of funds.

So if you have a better solution, I'd be glad to hear it. Please make it a bit more comprehensive than what you've already suggested. No need to ramble on like I have, but some details would be helpful.

Oh. I see what you think I meant when I said socialized medicine. Of course the people providing the healthcare are going to get paid.

How so?

I do agree on the American healthcare system mostly because of government intervention (like limiting the number of doctors) and hospitals not competing enough with each other. I think the FDA is part of the problem along with Big Pharma.

My entire problem with US medicine is the ridiculously high prices people pay, along with the fact that the US has some of the worst healthcare in a developed nation. This makes insurance a must if you want to survive, and it isn't always easy to come by. Most people get it from full time jobs, and some employers will scam people by making them work just under full time as to not give them benefits. I think that medicine should have sensible pricing and insurance should be widely available. The problem is that hospitals charge far too much. Maybe a more sensible system where the priority is providing a service, not making a profit

Well, command economics systems are overall horrible, they're slow, inefficient, run poorly and give the government more power. Nobody said the market system is perfect and it's not but it promotes innovation that the rest of the world relies upon.