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Lol, let’s hear the story

Check the other comment on this post

well I thought I would like this stream, but I think i've changed my mind

I’m sorry about that :(

Salt Lake City, Utah - Back in the 1980's, a Catholic Holy Man by the name of Tom Zimmer claimed that he received word from God that Donald J. Trump is God's chosen instrument to lead America, and in turn the rest of the world, back to Him (https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/president-trump-will-lead-america-back-to-god-according-to-prediction-from-1980).

However, that claim is being contested by one Father Jack McCarrick of the Aaronic priesthood in the LDS church, who claims he received a vision from Jesus Christ, telling him that Joe Biden will be the one to lead America down the right path.

"I was asleep in bed with one of my nine wives," he said, "when suddenly there was a blinding light, and when I looked, behold, there was the Christ standing at my bedside. He looked me in the eyes, and said, 'Behold, President-elect Joseph Biden has my hand on him, to lead America to my ways, and to be my servants.'"

The priest continued, "Then, suddenly, I wanted to get a better look at Him, but He disappeared before I could do so." He was asked if his wife also saw the vision, but he replied, "Nonsense, she was asleep."

Further investigation will be made, asking various Mormons if their bosom warms at the news. If it's a consistent yes, the prophecy will be taken seriously.

Questions are being asked about the legitimacy of the account, however, when McCarrick was later heard talking to himself, saying, "Yes, Lucifer, I told them what you told me to say to them. Yes, they fell for it. They're all yours."

for one, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are monogamous, worship the Lord Jesus Christ, pray to God the Father, and seek to bring others to Christ. Members of the Church do not receive revelation other than personal revelation.

this is almost as bad as a liberal debunking conservative values. Have some respect for your fellow Christians.

There are four doctrines that all Christians must hold to: 1, that God is uncreated, and is therefore the only one worthy of worship; 2, that God is three beings of one essence, rather than one being of one essence, or three distinct gods; 3, that God sent His son Jesus to bring Salvation to humankind, who alienated themselves from Him; and 4, that this Salvation cannot be obtained by good deeds, but only by the Grace of God.

Mormons hold that God the Father was once a man, who became a god when He died, and that He spawned Jesus, satan, and every human on earth.

They hold that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods.

They believe that Jesus came to Earth to teach us how to be gods, rather than to reconcile us to the only True God.

They believe in universal salvation, but that you get extra points for doing good works.

Are there, perhaps, Mormons who are sincerely doing their best to seek after Christ? Maybe. In fact, probably. But by and large, Mormonism isn't a branch of Christianity; it's a cult. If you wish, I can point out more things that alienate the LDS church from the true Bride of Christ.

you know nothing about "mormons" I am a mormon therefore I think I know what I believe. I believe in God the father, Jesus his son in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit messenger and comforter. they are all separate beings.

Jesus came to earth to suffer the ultimate price, and through his atonement our sins can be forgiven us. what part of that is not christian? there are so many lies that have been spread about us it is sickening. its ironic how unkind people who call themselves "the christians" can be the minute the find out you are a Latter-day Saint. we have been oppressed for 2 hundred years, it we did not believe half of it, do you think we would have died for it? please stop pretending you know anything about my religion. it is not a cult.

and yes we do service as a large part of our religion. Jesus taught by his example, he healed the sick, fed, the hungry, clothed the poor, and gave his life to serving those that needed it. if ye have done it unto the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. how is that worse than saying you "believe", and then doing nothing to prove it? faith is an action word. you have to show your faith, or else you are just saying meaningless words. by their fruits ye shall know them.

You have done nothing to disprove my point. All you have done is dodge the issue by bringing up almost entirely different subjects.

I agree that works are a major part of our faith. But, they are not what saves us. They are evidence of a changed heart; they are not what changes it.

There are hundreds of people who escape the Mormon church every year. Almost all of them agree: Mormonism is a cult, and they were brought out of it by the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ. If possible, pick up a copy of Unveiling Grace, by Lynn Wilder. It's the true story of how she and her husband were converted to Mormonism, and spend years in that church. However, as time goes on, they realize Mormonism for the satanic lie that it is. But, higher forces make it difficult for them to pull out. Eventually, they get out, and realize Christ used that experience to give them a heart for the Mormons, so they can minister to them, and point them to the Light of Christ.

My apologies if there is any apparent rudeness in my above statements. I find it rather difficult to be blunt while maintaining complete civility.

what exactly did I avoid and what do you want proof of? id be happy to answer. nothing I talked about was anything but what was brought up by you as an accusation.

🙄people "escape" all the time. no one stops them, it's not a cult. the KKK is a cult. there is no such thing as "Mormonism" thats just something other people invented. our church is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. what in the world do you find so cultish? Is it cult like when I play my violin to accompany a choir singing oh come oh come Emanuel? I don't understand, we are just like any of you as far as cult goes. if anythings a cult its Jehovah's witness.

there is a group that calls themselves the "real mormons" in Utah mostly. they broke off from our church when Joseph Smith was murdered, believing that the priesthood keys were hereditary and that Josephs son was the real prophet, rather than some one called of God. they are not the same thing, and I know nothing about them. and now you'll attack the prophet thing next

it is rude when you make assumptions about something you've been misinformed about. I haven't had a problem differentiating between rude know-it-alls and the ones who are just blunt. you are not here for the truth, you are here to argue my religion in a free country. much like a liberal

You almost entirely avoided addressing my points on why Mormon theology is not compatible with Christian theology. You say you know what Mormons believe. Prove to me, then, that Mormons conform to the 4 basic doctrines I provided. Unless the LDS church has drastically changed in the two months since I was last in Utah, I'm guessing they don't.

No one tries to stops them, eh? Perhaps read that book that I recommended to you. They encountered VERY strong resistance, both on a human and spiritual level. Most Mormon escapees will tell you the same.

You want me to tell you what's so cultish about them? Alright,
- they practically worship Joseph Smith
- they don't let anyone who isn't a Mormon enter their temples, not even to quickly utilize their facilities
- they believe being baptized in the name of the dead will redeem them. Sounds more occultish than cultish, I guess, but my point remains
- every time the Book of Mormon was altered, they broke into the homes of people who possessed the old versions so they could destroy any evidence this was altered. For example, after Mormonism made the shift from Monotheism to Polytheism (by "Divine revelation"), they broke into the house of a family friend who possessed the old version which pointed to Mormonism's monotheistic origins.
There's plenty more, but that's what came off the top of my head.

Well, I agree with you on that. The Jehovah's Witnesses ARE a cult. But that's aside our current discussion.

Do they still practice polygamy? You might be talking about the Fundamentalist Mormons.

Since Christianity also has Prophets, no, I hold no issue with the role of Prophet in and of itself. Of course, if he's a prophet of the enemy, that's where the problem lies.

In case you haven't noticed, I've been referencing EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY, not just what some obscure pastor somewhere said. Their words hold weight.

Comparing my engaging you in discussion about the contrasts between our two belief systems with a liberal's attempt to discredit conservative values is much like when people were comparing fetuses to felons not two weeks back. They're completely different. I'm not censoring your opinion. If I wanted to do that, I'd just delete your comments. I'm not trying to get you to change your mind by sheer force. I'm engaging you in (somewhat) civil conversation.

Again, my apologies for any apparent rudeness.

I'm getting the impression that you have not yet realized that I myself am a so called "mormon" therefore I think I am more of an authority on my own religion than you are.

I do not have much time, so I'll just address your list of "cultish beliefs"

1 We do not worship Joseph Smith, we respect and admire him. He had great strength and faith to follow the lord, even when he was threatened with jail and angry mobs, he went forward to be a tool in the Lord's work. he was a prophet of God, the fruits of the devil are pure evil. What evil has come from any one of our prophets?

2 The temple is a holy place that we do not take lightly. It is not a tourist destination. The temple is where we make sacred covenants with God such as marriage. (We believe that marital bonds go beyond the veil, and also the family bonds under such a union) We believe that an unchanging God would have Temples in his restored church, just as there were in the Bible. the same with prophets.

3 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" ~ 1 Corinthians 15:29
What more can I say? Other than that for one to enter into the kingdom of God, one must be baptized. How could God be a just God, if those souls that hadn't had a chance to hear the gospel, were in a state of damnation* for all eternity? We also seal families that did not have the chance, together in the temple. We believe that those that passed will have the chance to accept or reject those ordinances done in their behalf.

4 I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about, but what would you do if someone tried to change the Bible?? I don't think that was My church. It was most likely those "Fundamentalist Mormons" There have been no changes to the Book of Mormon in my church.

Often what happens with these "eye witness" testimonies, is that they have a disagreement with another member, or their sins has been "preached on". It's surprisingly common. However, we have to remember that the church is not the individual, but the constant efforts of all the people.

There have been so many false rumors and lies over the past 200 years, and it has done nothing but convince me that Lucifer's attacks are strongest where the people are righteous. "Blessed are ye that are persecuted in my name" for we took His name upon us in baptism, and we carry His name in our hearts as we renew out baptismal covenants each week on Sunday.

I'm sorry lol I'm Camogirl. I did not realize I was on my brother's account

Hey, sorry it took so long for me to reply. Life blew up. You know how Christmas gets.

1. Have you heard of that one Mormon hymn that goes along the lines of, "Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah"? Yeah. It's basically ascribing worship to him.

Joseph Smith was a polygamist, adulterer, pedophile, murderer, and quite possibly a sorcerer. And a bad liar. He changed the story of how he was told the location of the golden plates at least twice. First time, it was an angel. Second time, it was two angels. Third time, it was the Father and Son themselves.

2. Fair enough, if we're talking about people of other faiths entering. But they won't even let other Christians in. Even the Catholics (which I am not, just to be clear) let other Christians attend mass, albeit they won't let them take the Eucharist. If the LDS have nothing to hide from the rest of the Church, why do they deny them access to their temples?

3. From Bible Hub: "The only tenable interpretation is that there existed amongst some of the Christians at Corinth a practice of baptising a living person in the stead of some convert who had died before that sacrament had been administered to him. Such a practice existed amongst the Marcionites in the second century, and still earlier amongst a sect called the Corinthians." When Paul said this, he wasn't appealing to it as doctrinal truth. He was pointing out that since they held that practice, it was illogical for them to deny the resurrection of the dead.

4. If someone tried to change the Scriptures (*cough cough* Joseph Smith) true Christians would out them as the heretic he is.

Here's an interesting side point: Galatians 1:8, NIV "But even if we or an angel from heaven (Moroni?) should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!" And also, Proverbs 30:5-6, NIV "Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Guess what Smith did? He added to God's Word! No wonder he's been outed as a liar time and time again!

yeah lol, I get it.

"Praise" is different than "worship" we hold Joseph Smith in high esteem for his faith and trust in the lord, and eventual martyrdom. He did, in the first vision, "commune with Jehovah" and then was visited by Moroni. Touching on a subject later in your message: The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ, and a record of the indigenous people of America. Joseph Smith, who was in fact illiterate, did not write it. He translated it through the urim and thummim, and dictated to Oliver Cowdrey who was a school teacher.

Our meetings are, too, open to the public. That is where we listen to the talks and go to Sunday school. That is aside from the point. Children turning twelve in the year(and up), can be interviewed by the bishop for a "temple recommend". a temple recommend interview is just a few simple questions touching on universally known topics:

Do you have faith in and a testimony of God, the Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?

Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and of His role as your Savior and Redeemer?

Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?

The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before Him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41).

Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior?

Do you obey the law of chastity?

Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in your private and public behavior with members of your family and others?

Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?

Are you a full-tithe payer?

*Continuing in next comment*

I would like to know, where in the world you heard that Joseph Smith was an adulterer, pedophile, sorcerer, and MURDERER? I don't suppose that when you are being hunted down and your followers being killed by the hundred, you are allowed to defend yourself? I have never heard of Smith KILLING anyone. I forgot how much anti-mormon propaganda is being pumped into the world. You got anything on Nelson??
Polygamy was instituted, and then taken away because men were abusing it. It was instituted in biblical times, and I find it strange that you would condemn it so quickly, especially when it is no longer a practice.

it has been given the "Bible hub" the authority to interpret the Bible in such a way as to write off a practice done for the salvation of souls? By who? What makes more sense to you, a God who puts his children in pagan china in the 600s and says "your fate was predetermined because you will never hear the gospel", or "In the last days, prophets, priesthood, and temples, will be restored. Sacred saving ordinances performed in proxy by a worthy member of the church can be completed in the proper authority of the priesthood, and families can be together forever"? I say that the message of the Church of Jesus Christ, is the happiest most hope giving message out there. And if it's not true, God is not the God I thought he was. Families are essential to God's plan of happiness. Why would those families be dissolved after death?

Joseph Smith has not altered the scriptures in any way. We use the King James Version (KJV) and can purchase any translation from anywhere, but that is the recommended version. Again, show me what Joseph smith has changed in the Bible. Yes, the word of God is flawless, but who wrote the Bible? God, or righteous men? Even righteous men are flawed. that is not to discredit the Bible at all, but you'll remember that the Catholic Church took the Bible and threw out what ever was not of use to them, and so we no longer have the whole bible.

Now as to adding to His word, I don't think He meant that he was never going to speak again, I think it means more like "do not add your words to change the meaning of my words". How could God be a perfect and unchanging God, if His revelation ceased, His temples did not perform their functions, and the priesthood was not there to guide it?

5. If there are hundreds of such testimonies, all agreeing on the same thing, with no hatred for the people but only for the lies they're told, and if there are tons of ministries created to provide aid to escapees being hunted by the LDS church (again, eyewitness accounts from people who saw the Mormon Church for what it is, and had to go into hiding to avoid being hunted down and shut up by them), perhaps you should reconsider that statement. Just saying.

there were hundreds of testimonies to witches during the Salem witch trials, does that mean that they were witches? No. there are hundreds of thousands of liberals there to tell you of all the awful things that trump has done. does that mean he did them? No. There is nothing that our church practices that goes against the word of God. We support the family unit, we worship the almighty God, seek to do good amongst our neighbors, and strive to love our enemy.

Where the people are strongest, Lucifer's fiery darts fly the thickest. It all adds to my testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel. If the church were the devil's, would he try so hard to destroy it?

Until you see for yourself, you cannot truly know anything about our doctrines. I promise that if you visit the church, you will not be kiddnapped lol. After all, we stress that our religion should always be practiced under the law governing the land, and that our members be law abiding citizens and valuable members of society.

I have done plenty of research. I've talked with people who have worked with Mormons. I've looked at Mormon doctrines, and how they hold up to Scripture. I'm not the one being fed propaganda. If you can't look at all the discrepancies with Scripture and say, "This doesn't match up," then it's you who's in desperate need of help. Joseph Smith did not die a martyr. He died a servant of the devil, deceived by false promises to have a kingdom of his own.

Farewell. May God open your eyes to the Truth.

time will tell

Alright, I'll just drop these two things here, then I'll have to wrap up this debate.

Joseph Smith grew up using occultic powers to aid his father in locating silver ore. So he was a sorcerer.

Perhaps when I made the accusation that he was a polygamist, I should have expanded on that. God very clearly intended marriage to be between one man and one woman. Sometimes, it didn't work out that way, but there are many things that don't exactly work out in the most ideal way. However, it's explicitly stated in 1 Timothy that if someone is to have authority in the church, he must be the husband of but one wife. So, old Joey didn't really have any right to take on the leadership position he had, having married 30(+?) women, including at least one stolen from another man.

Which brings me to my next point, that he was an adulterer. I know of one specific case in which he demanded to one of his fresh-initiated followers to give up his wife to him (I don't remember the name of the man, but I do know the poor woman's name was Alice). I should probably add that he (the follower) had just recently married her before joining the Mormons. The follower, was, of course, heartbroken, but didn't dare question it. Alice wasn't too happy about it either. But, the "great Prophet" wasn't to be crossed, so he gave her up the next day.

Perhaps I was a bit hasty in calling him a pedophile. Most likely I had him confused with Mohammed at that point. Nonetheless, my other points stand.

Joseph Smith was jailed once for attempting to murder a man by the name of Walter Bigby, if I recall correctly. It may have simply been aggravated assault, but either way his actions could have easily killed his victim. He was also charged twice for conspiring to murder someone, but it was dismissed in both cases, so that's irrelevant.

My other main point: I'll leave this link to an article listing the differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity. Please read it thoroughly. https://www.gotquestions.org/Mormon-Christian.html

This is sad that one could believe such things. How are you supposed to know if Joseph smith really did any of that? you have been fed all the anti mormon propaganda and it is really really sad. You don't even have a clue. Nothing I, a member who has studied church history in depth, can say will help you see that. No one would give their life for a lie especially one that did not benefit in any worldly way

I'm sorry, goodbye.

Oh, and also my thanks for maintaining your civility. Most people who engage me in this sort of conversation tend to resort to insults after the first few comments.

you welcome :) I try to be the person I would like to talk to

that's fake

That's... the point.