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Modeling, and the photography that necessarily makes it possible, are valid art forms. Change my mind.

Modeling, and the photography that necessarily makes it possible, are valid art forms. Change my mind. | A WORK OF ART | image tagged in model,models,black and white,art,artwork,photography | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
195 views 7 upvotes Made by Slobama 4 years ago in SexStream
9 Comments
1 up, 4y
Cross-post with legsetc imgflip.com/i/4ebl3n
0 ups, 4y,
1 reply
Photography and modelling are not valid art forms if they are used to make pornography
2 ups, 4y,
1 reply
Is that was this is?

What is porn?
1 up, 4y,
1 reply
I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible to find someone who would call that porn.

Google says porn is:
por·nog·ra·phy
/pôrˈnäɡrəfē/

noun
printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.
2 ups, 4y,
1 reply
What is “porn”? Some definitions would include world heritage pieces. | image tagged in venus de milo x doubt,porn,art,artwork,statues,statue | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
Seems like we’re wading into an eternal existential debate.

I guess I disagree to an extent.

The Google definition is pretty good but maybe not perfect. E.g.: The bust of Venus de Milo depicts bare secondary sexual organs (I.e. breasts), but we would all consider it “art” today. Previous generations though? Maybe they beat off to her. Ditto for busts of ripped men with exposed p**ises. We don’t know exactly what that art was made for or how it was appreciated.

WiteRabid and I had an interesting discussion the other day about erotic artwork (from ancient Italy I think) that British historians from the Victorian era deliberately failed to preserve because they judged it immoral. Who knows how much artistic world heritage we lost because of decisions like that?

I’m not sure this definition of porn is one capable of really holding up to close scrutiny. What produces erotic feelings from person to person varies widely.

Rule 34 is an example of this — the idea that if something exists, there is porn of it. On the internet you’ll find “pornographic” images of everything under the sun. They seem humorous and maybe ridiculous to the vast majority of people but are there some people who really get their rocks off to that stuff? I don’t doubt it.

I think the OP photograph of the pretty young lady in underwear could be considered “porn,” erotic art, or just plain art depending on whom you ask.

I would define art (visual art) simply as the creative arrangement of visual content to produce feeling, and that would necessarily include “porn.”

Perhaps even the “to produce feeling” element of this definition isn’t strictly necessary. When I look at a Jackson Pollock or Mondrian painting, I wouldn’t say I “feel” much of anything, but I am intellectually stimulated and capable of appreciating the efforts and creativity that produced those paintings.

Pretty much anything that requires creative effort is art in my book — disparaging art as porn or “not art” or whatever is moralistic and gatekeeping. In my opinion.
1 up, 4y,
1 reply
That’s what heroes do | SEEMS LIKE WE’RE WADING INTO AN ETERNAL EXISTENTIAL DEBATE | image tagged in that s what heroes do | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
"The bust of Venus de Milo depicts bare secondary sexual organs (I.e. breasts), but we would all consider it “art” today..."

Difficult to know or maybe impossible to know the relationship people had with their art thousands of years ago. Though I think it is fair to say what was considered valid in 100 BCE would not be considered valid today, at least not 100% of the time. Also, because a piece of art is valid in a historical context does not mean that it would be valid if produced today. Example: constructing monuments to confederate generals was valid 100 years ago, but many people would not consider it valid to install a sculpture of Robert E. Lee today.

"WiteRabid and I had an interesting discussion the other day..."

Lamenting the destruction of antiquities assumes that is a bad thing. Perhaps it can be a good thing.

"What produces erotic feelings from person to person varies widely. Rule 34 is an example of this — the idea that if something exists, there is porn of it."

I didn't write the Google definition so I'm not going to claim it is God's honest truth, but it does include the word intended. If someone uses an item for sexual arousal that wasn't intended for that purpose then it is not necessarily porn.

"I would define art (visual art) simply as the creative arrangement of visual content to produce feeling, and that would necessarily include “porn.”"

Yes, but the image title made the assertion that the picture is not only art but valid art. If you state there is valid art that implies you believe invalid art also exists.

"Pretty much anything that requires creative effort is art in my book — disparaging art as porn or “not art” or whatever is moralistic and gatekeeping. In my opinion."

Often times serial killers will create elaborate rituals in their killings that follow a certain, morbid asthetic. They may go through great effort to reproduce this in all their murder scenes, but serial killing is not a widely accepted form of art. Saying that porn is art but ritual murder is not is a form of moralistic gatekeeping.
1 up, 4y,
1 reply
On the subject of ancient art: Our discussion was about the archeologic sites in Pompeii and Herculaneum (which were destroyed by an outbreak of the nearby Vesuvius and thus basically preserving a moment in time two millenia ago). Now, archeology back then wasn't what it is now. Back then it was "look what old stuff I found" on a good day and "See? Our people were so advanced back then and they have cultivated this land so long ago, so you don't belong here" or "Wow, you people were primitive back then!" on a bad day.

In this specific example they dug througj the ash and basalt and found basically a gigantic brothel. The whole town was covered in sculptures, mosaics, paintings, and carvings of people during sexual acts - even d**dos. Being the "good Christians" they were they massively covered it up with plaster, completely destroyed it, or - like in the case our discussion was based upon - mislabelled them (a person saving another from falling into a river instead of the actual doggy style sex it was) and filed them away never to be seen again.

Our discussion back then didn't even revolve around whether those statues, paintings, etc. were art or not. Back then they were pretty obviously porn - whether you call that art or not. The important part is that we all believed the ancient Romans were "so civilized" that we labelled their naked statues as art. The findings in Herculaneum and Pompeii however show us the Roman world before the widespread Christianization.

Only in the last twenty years or so have historians gone back through all the stuff found there and re-evaluated most of it. We are now pretty certain that those two cities were no outliers and all of the Roman world at the time looked pretty much exactly like that. There have been other findings throughout Italy, North Africa, even as far north as Germany that go along the same lines but had been covered up in the latter period of the Roman Empire. Maybe even the statues we now associate with the Roman period were originally porn and maybe later someone put clothes on them (which is one possible explanation for the missing arms btw.) or the more explicit ones were destroyed.

This is another reason I think a differentiation between art and porn is rather difficult. Technically, the word "art" only means "artificial", which comes very close to Kamikaze's definition of just "something made on purpose". Of course, there is more and less accepted art in different social contexts and communities...
1 up, 4y,
1 reply
Looks like you wrote a long comment and I want to read and reply to it but I don't know if I will have time right now. I just wanted to say that what I wrote was not my true opinion but an attempt to change kamakaze's mind, as he requested in the meme title. Hope I did not offend.
0 ups, 4y
Oh, I'm not offended in the least. The long comment was just catching you up on the discussion Kamikaze mentioned. I just thought it might interest you. 😉
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