Aren't you tired of living like this?

There is darkness, but it's not Trump who has cloaked America in it. Progressive-ism is a disease

Leftism tends to deteriorate into authoritarianism. Conservatives want to be left alone which is why they want smaller, less intrusive government. It's false to say that Conservatism descends into fascism, because it doesn't. Conservatism, if it does anything is become overwhelmed by authoritarians because they suck at fighting.

I assume you are talking about abortion. Conservatives view abortion as killing a human life. It is generally accepted by civilized people that killing is wrong and should be sanctioned by law. I know that is not your view. What other examples do you have?

Well we're ever going to agree. To justify the unjustifiable, you break out an early portion of the development of a child and call it "not-child" so it becomes okay to kill it. It's not you, it's a whole philosophy you ascribe to. Science continues to show more and more evidence that an embryo, fetus etc is a human life. Human life is intrinsically valuable and should be protected. At this point I think we've both aired our points of view sufficiently that we would just begin to repeat ourselves and that isn't going to get us anywhere.

But this answers your earlier question on how the Right sees abortion. They see it as killing and unjustifiable killing is morally repugnant. You don't agree, but hopefully you can understand without agreement why they take this particular stand.

From my view that IS what you are saying. I'm just not cashing the check you are trying to write. A human life is a human life at whatever the stage of development. It IS a rationalization, but abortion proponents have that problem within their arguments. I know I'm not going to change minds.

To answer your question: If a woman's life is in danger and the physician was able to determine that her life could only be saved by her aborting the unborn child, than without question it would be morally acceptable to perform the procedure to save her life. This is a specific circumstance that I'm sure occurs, but that circumstance in no way changes the dynamic of the argument that abortion is a moral evil.

I don't know the whole of the philosophy to which you ascribe, but I know enough from the few conversations we've had that, and the comments of yours over time, to know I'm close enough for the purposes of this conversation.

You don't deny that science continues to provide more evidence that embryos, fetuses (is that the plural of fetus? Feti?), but you're point of view doesn't change to reflect that or even allow for the possibility that it is a human life. The crux of the matter is that the taking of a human life is unjustifiable killing. I don't believe that you, Octavia, would support murder under any circumstances, but you really need to think about this outside of this conversation, because you could find yourself doing just that as science continues to provide additional evidence. What, do you think, would a scientific inquiry have to provide to convince you otherwise? Are you even convince-able?

You surprised me. I thought everyone would assume that human life is intrinsically valuable and worthy of protection. You didn't say so, but since you point out that is not science but my worldview (which is true), it sounds like you have a different view and I would be interested in hearing it. Maybe this is where we part company. If you don't believe in the intrinsic value of human life, then you WOULD have an easier time terminating a baby at an early form of its development, because there's nothing special about being human. But you have to be careful with that kind of thinking. It's a slippery slope.

Like many Leftist you are conflating other unrelated points instead of sticking to the original point being examined: abortion. But okay.

War and capital punishment are not the same things as killing innocent babies. War is the end result of other failed diplomatic efforts and capital punishment is doled out after someone has received due process of law.

Your view on abortion is untenable. It's not based on anything more than your opinion that the baby does not have "qualities typically ascribed to a 'person'.... It's nothing close to a baby." Octavia, it's a baby. What else could it be. It's certainly closer to a baby than anything else you can name. Moreover, if you are using the heartbeat/brainwave measurement, it will undercut your argument. A baby will have a heartbeat and brainwave activity many times before a woman even knows she's pregnant. So where DO you draw the line? You said: "...abortion is fine up to a point..." What is that point and what should happen to a woman who violates that point?

As to the other "examples" you cite. You will have to be more specific. Laws were passed in various States at various points in our history and I don't think you've even begun to make the case that they are "conservative" legislation. Many of these laws were passed in the South where Democrats held control for many decades after the civil war. So cite a specific law and we can talk about it. If your just going to make sweeping generalizations about "Conservatives pass laws!" then you're passing on a narrative and not anything factual.

You may not be as virulently Left as others on this site, but you can argue like one. Look at the friggin' novel you're up to writing.

Embryos are babies at a particular point of their development. It's not something completely other and then suddenly it becomes a human child. It is a human child. This is the poisoning of logic of the Left. If you're okay with infanticide just say so, I'd have more respect for you.

Sources? Below:

Babies heartbeat can be detected at 5-6 weeks by va**nal ultrasound:
https://www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/when-can-you-hear-babys-heartbeat#TOC_TITLE_HDR_1

Fetal brainwave recording. This is a very interesting article. It's difficult to gauge because babies are so small at this stage, but 45 days seems to be a supportable conclusion:
https://lozierinstitute.org/fetal-eegs-signals-from-the-dawn-of-life/

My point stands: Some women might not know at 6 weeks. Killing a baby at an early stage of its development is still killing a child. It's not going to become anything else.

You find it difficult to pin down because your opinion is completely arbitrary. And you never answered what should happen to a woman who violates that point. To be fair you didn't really answer the first question either. But from your perspective, when is it no longer removing a clump pf cells and is now actually killing the baby?

You are wise not to answer though, it would be easy to pick apart by retrogressing each day to try and find the point you very much want to exist. The point at which the developing baby is not a human baby.

As far as the history of legislation, you're all over the place. There are a lot of anti-homosexual legislation going back 100 years and even much earlier if you take into account other countries. I didn't mean to imply it was ONLY Democrats that supported such legislation, I know people on the Right did as well. My point should have been better made that most people, regardless of party affiliation supported such laws. So, if it is unfair to lay that at the feet of Democrats, it would be equally unfair to lay it at the feet of Republicans as well.

There are Conservatives who are not happy with current legislation regarding gay marriage and such, but they are complying with the law. They're allowed to be vocally unhappy about it as long as it doesn't descend into violence. So what other current legislation are people on the Right attempting to pass that would interfere with the lives of people.

"Conservatives want to be left alone"

Pfffffft, shame they can't take their own advice!

Conservatives: Stop telling us what to do!

Also Conservatives: Hey! Stop having sex if you're not married! Stop having sex with people of the same sex! Stop cross-dressing! Stop telling kids that same sex relationships are ok! Stop protesting! Stop criticizing bigots! Stop demanding equality! yada yada yada

Maybe you should sit this one out. After all, it's two adults having a respectful discussion, so you're going to have a problem keeping up.

You're blaming the wrong people. Do some research.