Politics: Redux

https://imgflip.com/m/Politics_Redux

bot556, I wanted to take some time to chat with you about Timber1972 away from his nasty attack meme.

This is the meme I referenced, where he bombed me with spam a couple nights ago: imgflip.com/i/422vgw

Btw this took place in a meme on a stream I moderate that *is* a self-described safe space. Because it is a stream for helping cyberbullied children, basically.

imgflip.com/m/Peace_On_Imgflip

I could not keep up with Timber’s spam comments, and eventually had to unfeature the entire meme from the stream to keep the kids from seeing this hateful nonsense.

(SydneyB who is cynical in his own way cheered him on from the sidelines and they even went to work trying to brainwash a 13-year-old girl.)

The guy is a disgusting cynical monster. He may make it his mission to destroy Politics_Redux now, and if he wants to destroy it now with spam, there aren’t really any great options for dealing with that, because spammers can always spam faster than mods can delete.

I only hope he has enough of a conscience to heed your message and keeps his whining directed at me.

Yeah, what a mess. But hey that's life, it is what it is and not always much anyone can do about it. I've seen worse in my travels across the internet, especially scrolling through YouTube comments sections. I'm getting a bit cynical myself about this whole s***storm, realizing that outta nowhere I could get sucked in again. Being the owner of a stream has been a lot more complicated than I thought.

Hey, at least my stream's getting more attention, right? As I was saying in my comments on Timber1972's image, at least some good might come from this.

Hey man I saw you and Timber were continuing to go at it.

I just wanted to chime in again with a couple more thoughts.

1. Your Politics_Redux stream description is beautiful. One of the most mature I have ever read: as were the terms your “Mod contract” when you brought me on board. Please know you have not failed as a stream owner whatsoever, even if you feel disappointment and shortcomings in how the stream has turned out. You’ve inspired me deeply, to think and meme more closely about the structural issues separate from the 24-hour news cycle. And to extend olive branches to the other side.

2. Timber1972 is a master of making mountains out of molehills. It is totally ridiculous that he would put your stream on blast, a stream he’s never contributed to nor probably has any intention to, simply because it contained on sentence he didn’t like. Reading through your discussions, it appears that you are both actually on the same page regarding heavily favoring free speech as a substantive matter.

The only salient difference is that he’s an asshole, you’re not.

Heck, I even linked him the mod log which proves neither of us have deleted or unfeatured anything at all in the past 30 days. That should have sent him on his way. But he simply barrels past facts and evidence.

And he ignores the fact I debated with him civilly (as best I could given his obtuseness) on one of the stream memes without hitting the delete button, nor did it even cross my mind. imgflip.com/i/422aky

Every single one of us agrees countering bad speech with better speech is the best way.

But Timber will say that, and then turn around and hurl low-quality invective at you — e.g. labeling you a Leftist before he ever got the chance to talk with you simply based on one sentence in your stream description he didn’t like.

In addition to his own total hypocrisy on speech issues, he fundamentally does not seem to understand or respect the concept of streams and how they foster unique communities and discussion of ideas on ImgFlip. He does not understand that YOUR OWN free speech rights empower you to not have to platform TOS-violating nonsense on your streams.

So: I fear for what Timber intends to do to the stream now that it is in his crosshairs. If either of us ever finds it necessary to delete a single comment of his, no matter how dumb or hurtful, he will go ballistic.

So let us both keep in mind the “three strikes” policy if he continues to come around.

Either way people are going to be a**holes. The only thing I can do is encourage them to instead take the high road, but after that it's out of my control. The decision to engage in rational, civil discussion must be theirs and theirs alone. I can't make it for them.

I changed the ToS description. I hated to do it, but it was necessary. Why? Because at the end of the day I can't really prevent someone from being obnoxious. I can only rebut their statements, only that has a chance reach them. You saw it with my spat with MyBrothersKeeper. He was being extremely obnoxious and irrational, but to delete those comments would only make it that much worse. any possibility of a rational discussion would have been obliterated. Not that there was any, but...

See, what I realized is that I have to allow people to be obnoxious, even in an environment that aims to promote civil discussion. Because that is the only way I can hope to get through to them, is by allowing then to say the dumb s*** they want to say, and then making the case for why they're wrong. If you point to the ToS they're just gonna claim that they're being censored. I wish I could tell Timber to delete that meme about politics_redux, but I know he won't. Now that it's out there, I have to adapt to the consequences that may arise. Part of that was changing the stream's ToS to mitigate the threats of spamming and s***posting.

Isn't it so f***ing ironic? I let a a fellow free speech advocate tell me what I can and can't say. If he comes at me again, he'd better have an actual excuse now that I changed the ToS.

Thanks for continuing to support my stream, I'm glad at least one person can appreciate it.

So I hate to be a nihilist here, but it is what it is.

"Isn't it so f***ing ironic? I let a a fellow free speech advocate tell me what I can and can't say. "

This. Timber is honestly a bigger language policer and "crybully" than any. And it all sort of stems from the fact that he is unable to comprehend, let alone respect, the fact that *others'* free speech rights give them the right *not* to platform any viewpoint they do not want to express.

Timber is basically the dude who rushes the stage at a campaign rally, grabs the microphone from the candidate, and demands to have his grievances heard.

Protest outside, sure. But the stage itself is not your platform, dude. You're not the person whom all of the candidates' supporters turned out to see. And rushing the stage has the effect of robbing the candidate of their free speech rights, which is more important to democracy than the grievances of a rando with no following of their own.

I read the new description. So it's just more of a soft-pedaled version, keeping the gist of the policy intact. Hopefully Timber buggers off now, because he so loves getting his way.

Probably the best we can do for now.

So: is the new policy to not delete basically anything? (Except in the event, let's say, purgey finds the stream and starts talking about throwing Jews in ovens)

I guess I'll just inform you first if I see anything that might need moderation.

I somehow forgot the most flagrant example of where Timber’s thinking goes off the rails.

He has called for the deletion of certain of my meme streams. And at one point started calling for the deletion of my entire ImgFlip account.

This is an anti-speech tyrant position that far exceeds anything I’ve ever advanced myself. (Unless you count purgey and his neo-Nazi Anti-Semitism which I am proud of ImgFlip for refusing to platform.)

So, Timber1972 will claim to your face he’s just after “free speech,” but what he really wants in his heart of hearts is for reasonable voices to be shouted down and ultimately for anything he deems “Leftist” gone from not only the ImgFlip website but from the face of existence.

His inability to make that happen fuels the rage he brings to ImgFlip every single day.

Yeah, it does get worse on places like 4Chan and 8Chan. Which is why I don't go there and I don't want ImgFlip to turn into that.

How has stream ownership been complicated if you don't mind my asking?

I own or mod quite a few streams -- that Peace_on_ImgFlip mess from a couple days ago was the biggest modding challenge I have faced so far, but through resourcefulness (unfeaturing the meme as a last resort), I surpassed it.

If you have any questions on tips for stream modding, let me know.

https://imgflip.com/m/Politics_Redux

Hah. “Politics” will be fine

There are 1000’s of awesome stream ideas that haven’t even been conceived yet

And now, we have this one.