Nick Young

(I'm Dutch myself, so I know the difference. And contrary to popular belief, Dutch and Deutsch (although they may sound alike to the untrained ear) are NOT dialects of each other).

Well, Dutch and Niederdeutsch or Plattdeutsch (especially like it is spoken in northern Germany - Friesland, for example) actually are fairly similar and I guess they probably started out as the same language and then evolved into different languages (beyond mere dialects) over time. What annoys me more is that we call ourselves "deutsch" and our country "Deutschland" while pretty much everyone else calls us "German" and the country "Germany" (or a slight variation of it). The Dutch, however, who would have the best reason to differentiate us from themselves, use "Duits" and "Duitsland" (if I recall correctly). But the reverse situation is even worse... If I hear one more person calling the Dutch "Holländer" or tell me they're going to "Holland" on their vacation when, infact, they're going to a different part of the Netherlands, I'm gonna lose it. Maybe I need to move... 😅🙈

Dutch is derrived from "Diets" which is the mother of the Dutch language, so the English word "Dutch" is not that odd. "Duytschen Bloedt" in our anthem also refers to Diets. The German language (which is indeed "Duits" in Dutch, and the Dutch name for Germany is indeed "Duitsland". In French it's "Allemange" and the language is "Allemand" which is in most Roman language a variant of that. And I know that in Swedish it's "Tyskland") is in a certain way also born out of Diets and many other local languages in areas that are now part of Germany and Austria.

And it's good to hear somebody who is not from the Netherlands note the difrence between Holland and the Netherlands. Some people make strange faces when I tell them that Holland borders to neither Germany nor Belgium (which is true, since Holland only borders to the sea. It's Groningen, Drenthe, Overijssel, Gelderland and Limburg bordering to Germany, and Limburg, Noord-Brabant and Zeeland bordering to Belgium). Some people don't understand me when I say that I do live in the Netherlands, but not in Holland.(I live in Noord-Brabant).

When it comes to the Dutch and German spoken near the border, then yeah, then there are similarities, due to local accents getting closer to each other, but when I hear Belgians speak Dutch I also recognize a bit of a French tone in their pronunciation. I guess it's only natural that in language border areas both sides of the border influence each other.

I do know what many Dutch just learning English get confused by the word "Dutch" thinking it would refer to German, while it does refer to themselves.

Oh and when it comes to names for Germany... The Finnish are worse of. In nearly all languages except Finnish itself, the country is called "Finland" and in Finnish itself it's "Suomi". Meaning something like "Land of swamps". Some people believe that 'Finland' comes from the (ancient) English word "Fen" meaning swamp.

And German and Dutch being similar to the untrained ear did bring us Dutch often to be spoken to in German (by non-German people and not in Germany) when abroad and many Dutch hate that. And I've really spoken to people who really believe they speak German in the Netherlands and that the word "Dutch" is merely used to name the local accent.

"Ik geloof dat het moeilijk is het aan hen te verklaren"
"Ich glaube dass es schwierig ist, es ihnnen zu erklären"

Really looks like the same language? (I said the same in both languages, or at least I tried to).

Ok, I admit there are more roots than just the "German" from the "Germanic tribes" (which never really existed - it's a name that was given from an outside point of view, pretty much like "Barbarian" or "Normannen"). There is also the "Alleman" root which comes from an actual tribe that in part lived in parts of what we now call Germany - the "Allamannen".
I guess, the long and short of it is: Language is weird and doesn't always have a logical structure. Especially with a language as isolated as Finnish... I'd love to know how that came to be.
And you did say pretty much the same thing in Dutch and German there. ;) You can definitely tell that it's two different languages but I still remember when we used to go to Arnhem or Harderwijk when I was a kid I could basically read the Dutch signs and understand at least the overall gist of it without ever having learned Dutch. The biggest differences are usually in the simpler words as the more "complicated" words are usually used in many languages. Just look at something like "university" - that's a very (excuse the pun) universal word and is only minimally changed in languages all over the world. On the other hand the more "pedestrian" words are usually very different because they grew out of how people have been talking to each other for centuries. Just take "moeilijk", "schwierig", "difficult",... It's a much older concept and therefore has a much more individual, "grown" word in each language.

Yeah, speaking of "moeilijk"... I do not know for sure where it comes from, but I think it's a shortening from 'vermoeilijk' derrived from the verb "vermoeien" which means "making tired" or "exhaust", so that the context would be that if something is difficult it exhausts you... "moe" means "tired" in Dutch...

When it comes to Finnish, it is part of a language group where also some languages spoken in former Soviet Republics come from, however I believe those languages were banned by the Soviet regime back in the time, and although they are spoken again, heavily influenced by the Russian language, and Finland, however a former part of Russia, was already a separate country when the Soviet Union was founded, and thus the Finnish language could remain a bit more "pure", I think... Just a speculation, as I really don't know... Some Dutch people already complain when they got to learn German about the 4 cases (turning "der" to "des", "dem" and "den" depending on the case), and my teacher scared them by telling Finnish has approx 28 cases (if not more... I believe Latin has 8).

And yeah, the first time I came to Germany, was actually on my way to Yugoslavia (which still was a country back then), and I could partially understand German signs too by relating to Dutch. I immediately knew that "Bleifrei" meant "free of lead" or "unleaded" (in Dutch "loodvrij"), but it being written on all patrol stations at the time, made it obvious... I mean I also came in France a lot and I found out pretty quickly that in French it's "Sans plomb" (literally "without lead")... Sometimes it's also looking in the context the word is used in, I guess... ;)

Some people who knew German felt like reading a misspelled German text when reading Dutch. I actually feel like reading a misspelled Dutch text when I read in Afrikaans, which is easier for me to read than German, but Afrikaans really used to be a Dutch dialect and has only recently been recognized as a language on its own as people did see the differences are too great by now. For starters unlike Dutch, Afrikaans does not have a past tense and they always use the perfect tense when speaking of the past... Dutch has a past tense.

Sometimes I get past funny things. The tactical RPG series Disgaea has a move called "Zielregen". I think they meant it to be German. I was never sure how to translate that. "ziel" and "regen" are both Dutch words as well, but I believe "ziel" has a different meaning in Dutch (in Dutch it's "soul").

Actually, Latin has only five cases but there's a whole lot more to mess with you than just cases... 🙈 it's the different declinations and conjugations - all having different rules for forming the different cases - and the verb tenses and weird grammatical constructions that drive you mad. On the other hand all of that makes Latin a very beautiful language in my opinion because it is just sooo deep.

I've looked into Afrikaans a little and with my English and my rudimentary Dutch I could almost understand it. I find the South African culture really fascinating and the mixing of the languages is a beautiful indicator of that.

I don't know that game but "Ziel" in German is either goal or target and "Regen" is of course rain. So, I'm gonna guess it rains down stuff on your enemy?

"Zielregen" is a move which can only be used by archers (in the sense of a character equipped with a bow, which technically any humanoid character can do (the game also features monster characters, which cannot)), and a rain of arrows will come down on the enemy... So I guess "Target rain" could be a good translation then? Then again from Dutch "Soul Rain" could also be nice, since the Disgaea series evolve around demons and basically you play on the side of evil (although when you get good understanding of the Disgaea universe, which is actually not meant ot be taken seriously, as the game focuses most of all on humor, you'll find out the evil characters are not as evil as they believe themselves to be).

5 cases? Less than I thought (errare humanum est), but yeah, the way verbs work in Latin is indeed also a pain when learning it. I once developed a language myself for my fantasy novels, and that language has 6 cases, however it does not make a difference between male, female and no-gender, like German does. That language is by the way also a lot friendlier on verbs.

I also liked how Monty Python made a joke of the Latin language and how hard it is when Brian tried to write "Romans, go home" in Latin, and a soldier threatened him for using the wrong cases and verb forms, having to write the correct sentence a thousand times on all the walls (which was what he was planning to do anyway).

Afrikaans is so close to Dutch, since South-Africa used to be a Dutch colony and if you look at the map of South-Africa and and map of the Netherlands you'll find many same-named cities. Afrikaans being so close to Dutch is a left-over from that time ("Apartheid" is actually a Dutch word, which also has the same meaning in Afrikaans. Not a coincidence). A nice anecdote states that a female writer once got an award for the best novel in the Dutch language for a novel that was in fact written in Afrikaans, but back in the time not recognized as a language but as a Dutch dialect. I have to look up when Afrikaans was officially recognized as a language on its own. I do know that Afrikaans is a lot simpler than Dutch, and linguists recommend against Afrikaans first if you want to learn Dutch, as that will rather work confusing and thus counter-productive.

Oh, if you wonder about the language I created: "Shâlo! Ty bâ dâ Jeroen. Wîk bâ tü?"
I guess that one is easy to translate ;)

Oh, cool. I have started writing fantasy (ages ago but haven't really continued... I have much more fun worldbuilding than actually writing a story placed inside of it) and I had a few rudimentary words for one of the languages, but nothing like a system with cases and tenses - I was just going for simple concepts because I wanted to make the place names feel more real and natural. I had about four different scripts with at least two variations each but I didn't know enough about linguistics to actually fill them out yet. Well, I guess I could just wing it but that's not really my style... 🙈

Ryl? Tü tônka dûl? Grâs, abro ty tônka ty bâ tîty vure tê fêt dûl! (Really? You think that? Thanks, but I think I'm crazy to do that). (BTW, that = dû, but the "l" was added as both times I used the word the 3rd case (out of 6) applied).

I should really set up a kind of YouTube channel or other kind of channel to allow people to learn the common language of Phantasar... Even though the language is much easier to learn than German, Dutch, English or French, it can still be a kind of challenge to master it. (Dâ Tôlky dâr Fântâsâr nât bâ dify). Now it even has its own script, which you can perfectly write out in Roman letters.

I did write an introduction (in Dutch) about the language of Phantasar: http://utbbs.tbbs.nl/Phantasar.php?A=DShow&Lang=NL&HC=Phantasar&Rec=%41%6c%67%65%6d%65%6e%65%20%76%6f%65%72%74%61%61%6c%20%76%61%6e%20%50%68%61%6e%74%61%73%61%72&D=Back

It's funny that I actually understand most of it. 😁 And I would definitely watch that YouTube channel if you ever decided to make one.

Yeah, the problem is that I ain't such a great video director, but hey, ya never know...