gun in face

BTW - 93 countries ranked higher than America in homicide per capita and it gets far better if we dropped off the Dmocratically controlled places like Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore..... You get the picture?

The fact that we do better on murder than places like El Salvador and the Congo is not persuasive to me at all.

We are a first-world country with strong rule of law. That’s why I chose the countries I did in this comparison chart.

We should be doing as well as Australia or New Zealand. Or at least Switzerland. But we are way, way worse.

Why don't you simply move to one of these countries since they are doing so well?? We have a constitution and it shows that we are a first world contry with a rule of law but you seem to want to jetison it. Our 2nd amendment isn't going anywhere and it shouldn't simply because you might have a phobia.

Because I like America and want to make it better. That’s what we’re all trying to do here, right?

That said, Australia and New Zealand are f**king awesome. However, my wife and I getting re-licensed to practice law down there would be a pain. Maybe a good place to retire.

Please go - lol!!! How does taking away the rights of law abiding citizens make it better???

We wouldn’t have 40,000 dead every year for starters

Theoretically that number would be much higher and you are hedging your numbers aren't you? That is not the number of homicides and that is the subject. There's around 17k homicides and we have 330 million people. Guns are used far more for defensive causes and I don't think that you are considering that. Most Americans aren't murderers so why should 95% of law abiding Americans lose their right because of the 5%? I think you are looking for Utopia and it doesn't exist. Mind you that most of these murders are in places of strict "gun control".

14,000 plus some uncategorized gun deaths is the number if you want to talk just gun homicides. I don’t think you can take suicide out of the equation so easily because research is showing suicide can be a surprisingly impulsive decision, and owning a gun makes it easy to act on it.

“Gun free zones” that you guys love to ridicule are a misnomer. Local gun laws won’t ever do shit in a society as awash with guns as ours. I addressed this below in the comment with the chart containing the G-8 country comparisons. They didn’t achieve their low overall gun homicides with a patchwork of totally contradictory local laws and neither will we.

A virtually gun death-free Utopia does in fact exist on earth, and its name is Japan.

Here’s yet another chart for good measure. If all these very culturally disparate rich-world countries can all manage to achieve low gun deaths then we can too.

Who is "YOU GUYS"? I'm an independent thinker. Suicides must be taken out because the subject is homicides and if someone is goin gto kill themselves then there are a miriad of ways to do so and a determined person will get it done. This is still not a pretext for taking away the rights of Americans. Please note that I didn't use the words "Gun Utopia" - I used the word alone. I meant that there is evil people and there needs to be a means for stopping them. Our 2nd Amendment is cemented into our country and it's for good reason. Your desire to take away property and rights for law abiding citizens because of your little dream is seems very tyranical. Hard cases make bad policy and that's what you are suggesting. I still say that if anyone doesn't like America then they should pack their bags and I'll help you. That's the only way to interpret your comments. If you think that you are somehow doing a good thing then please address rationale for A- punishing the majority instead of the minority when the majority of gun owners have not broken any gun laws B- how are citizens to protect themselves when only criminals will have guns if you achieve your dream and C- the rationale for the fact that far more guns are used for preventing crimes and more lives are saved by guns than taken??

“You guys” = gun supporters. You may be an independent thinker but your arguments are similar to others.

Re: Utopia. No place on earth is crime free, of course, but Japan and South Korea show it is actually possible to get to virtually no gun deaths which is remarkable.

You can survive a robbery, burglary, or other types of crimes, but not if you’re shot dead. A criminal knife attack is less fatal than a gun assault..

Criminals will be disarmed, too, don’t worry. In fact, they’ll be the first to be disarmed.

The “guns save more lives than they take” is an argument I’ve seen, but it’s totally debunked by the stats in the charts I posted. It this were really true, then America, with all its law-abiding gun owners, should be one of the safest rich countries on earth. Instead, we lag literally all of our peer nations on this issue by a healthy margin.

I can't see that number of homicides prevented in this graph. Could you also look up the numbers of homicides in areas where there are "gun control" like Chigago or Los Angeles? I urge you to go look it up. America is a pretty awesome place.

Those cities do not have “gun control,” because our country as a whole does not have gun control. State and municipality borders are not policed at all.

How do you think these countries achieved these low gun homicide rates? They did it systematically, and nationwide.

Here’s another chart. Really we should aspire to Japan’s almost nonexistent gun crime. What happened to wanting to lead the world?

Instead of trying to strip law abiding citizens of guns then why not go live in one of these countries? That would solve your problem without taking away anyone's rights. Guns save far more lives that they take - 80X. You could also go live in a place which gun control is in full effect.

Maybe you haven't considered this but an armed citizenry is the best defense of a tyrannical government - that's the reason we have the 2nd Amendment. If you think that if you get your way that all of your troubles are over then think again. There will still be guns but only the lawless will have them and not the good citizens. Heck, this very incident in this church should awaken you!! A criminal started shooting and got shot!!!!! BY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Thank God for the 2nd Amendment. This is a perfect example of guns saving lives. Have you read this story?

I made a zillion memes over the past couple days debunking this whole “good guy with a gun” myth. It’s the best argument you guys have, and it is not a great one, honestly, since it relies on the background fact of victims being shot.

Not to mention: the times when a good guy with a gun is really there to stop the shooting are few and far between.

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Thanks for the endorsement to look at your memes but after the first couple I get the picture and they just notes one offs. According to this study, for 162k people annually are saved by guns. and that exceeds te 40k by 4 times which includes suicides. You must remember that when a good guy does stop a bad guy with a gun then it is not necessarily reported in the media. Bad news sells.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/03/20/any-study-of-gun-violence-should-include-how-guns-save-lives/#2abc4455edc5