Fallacious Argument 101

Those headings on the top of the page - it's not decoration. It's the name of the PEOPLE who wrote each book. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John - those were people.

The bible wasn't written by God, it was written by man. There are many of us who are upset about how the bible has been altered over the centuries. King Constantine and the First Council of Nicaea removed books that didn't meet their political aspirations....

Ok, hi Michael hi Sydney. When I first got on this site it was simply to try my hand at making a meme. I did not know it was a debate site. I get touchy in religious debates and both of you have told me not to take a personally in here.

Let me start out being totally arrogant. For my above meme I feel there's no debate to be had it is clear cut. The entire monotheistic situation is a giant appeal to authority. No matter where you find histories and literature pertaining to supposed evidence for a credible source in the scriptures it will always be the same appeal because by nature the times did not fully regard the importance these modern times have on evidence.

The gospels are so entirely unreliable and contradictory about the accounts of Jesus. And I know religious students tend to accept that and justified in various ways. That would be fine but the book itself does claim to be the Word of God many times. The eternal perfect and unchanging word of God.

The writers of the gospels were who, who, who and whom? Are you sure? The Bibles were changed by the council of Nicaea and Constantine well of that we're pretty sure, amongst others. But it was true in the first place? Really?

There were books left out of the Christian Bible.
- All the monotheistic Bibles are a collection of human wisdom taken from here there and everywhere, the best they could find at the time, and a collection of books in their own right, the Book of Proverbs for eg, and stuck in, mixed with a bunch of understandings about the Creator at the time, then called the perfect Word of God.

If it's the Jews being the chosen people. Muslims, Arabs and all the cultures that embrace the Quran, being the chosen of Allah and his 50 virgins. Or Christians having absolution eternal life in Jesus it's all founded in Genesis. All three contradictory religions call their scriptures perfect works.

Not really eager for your replies but let's have it. I guess I started this

Hi Justine, I do know that some of the translators during Luther's time changed 'unfermented juice' to wine because they liked to drink. But there are certain prophecies that are very interesting.

Yes, haha that is very interesting. There is some interesting prophecy throughout the Bibles. I always loved the book of Daniel. In fact Danielle is my middle name. It means Only God Can Judge Me 😊

Do you know why the commandments say worship no gods except Me?

Because there were lots of gods around at the time? False idols?

Yes but worshippers of Baal, Moloch and others use to sacrifice children on a large scale. I just mention it because alot try to ascribe it to vanity.

Oh, very interesting. I wouldn't say the idea of God portrayed in the Old Testament is a one of vanity. It is a complicated debate - the history at the time, how people thought and the for and against regards the traits of the "Sovereign Lord," as understood by men at the time.

Sorry, Jewish bible there...

Vanity and pride were more ascribed to his adversity *dark and evil laugh

You may despise Christianity but at least you can hear other opinions or points about it with consideration so I give you full credit for that.

Yes, thanks for that Sydney. See I have debated both sides of the equation before, starting two-ish decades ago. I'm weary from such and other debate. It's never ideal to tread on other people's beliefs. When I came on here sort of on a semi war path it was just to make a meme the first meme I ever made about "thou shalt not steal," pertaining to Christianity. And I never expected to enter any debate. Then on my second meme someone asked me "so your PhD in Theology is from where? And I'm off. I didn't debate well it was very emotional for me. I meant my memes as peaceful protests. I didn't intend to give people a chance to respond. Cheers

"Others a chance to respond," is the correct grammar there.

You'll get no argument from me about changes made to the bible. I've argued many times that it is an imperfect book because man is imperfect. There is some undeniable wisdom contained within it though. If the world lived by the 10 commandments, things would be pretty darn good. The golden rule is a fine idea (even though it doesn't really work when applied to masochists).

Quite often, people try to use scripture (or divine authority) to further selfish goals. It's actually for this reason that I gave up on organized religion. You might say that I have faith, but I follow my own path to heaven.... after all, who really knows what god wants from us.

The bible is clear about one thing - whenever anyone interacts directly with god, they are fundamentally changed. I have a feeling that a divine authority has plans and machinations that are far beyond the comprehension of mere mortals.

So, you've never read the 10 commandments? You should expand your horizons.

Here's a hint - none of them require any specific religion. The closest you'll get is the first, third, and fourth....but none have any specific belief requirement.

The first, worship only one god
The third, don't use the name of a god as a swear word
The fourth, keep the sabbath holy

The first doesn't say "only the god of Abraham" or "only worship Vishnu" - it says there's only one god.

The third makes sense to not marginalize anyone based on their beliefs.

The fourth doesn't say "the sabbath day is Sunday" (most Christians) or "the sabbath is Saturday" (Judaism)

Good for you, those are the important ones anyway.

The commandments were given to the Israelites. Did you expect that they wouldn't be relevant to them?

It's suspected that Moses (who was an Egyptian metallurgist) composed the commandments to act as their law while wandering the desert - so it makes even more sense that they be tailored to the audience.

Wow. So you're all for murder, and theft, and jealousy, and juvenile delinquency.....

It seems to me that if you're against commandments intended to prevent bad behavior, then you're in favor of the behavior they were intended to prevent.

Sorry, I was thinking of them in the wrong order - I was referring to not taking the lords name in vain....whichever one that is.

Yes, it has to do with preventing blasphemy and using the name of god as a form of profanity. Generally, misusing the name of god is frowned upon.

This isn't any kind of interpretation. This is a widely accepted understanding.

All of the books I listed were published in the last 50 years.

I'm saying that I've NEVER heard that commandment sold as not being about blasphemy, and I've been around it my entire life.

I thought that was more recent. Oh well, you just want to argue - and I don't feel like it. You believe what you want to believe. Neither of us were with Moses when he explained the commandments, so it's all just opinion anyway.

Pagan fiction, that people have been writing about for centuries....OK.

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible (chapter on Exodus), Crossway Classic Commentaries: Jeremiah and Lamentations, Harper Collins Bible Dictionary, Jewish Literacy: The most important things to know about the Jewish religion, its people and its history - just a few modern books discussing that particular commandment.

Yes, well said. A world were people lived by the 10 commandments would be awesome. It's almost like people live by the anti 10 commandments; some reason that made me think of the dark web <shudder>. That is a very funny joke regarding masochists.

It's hard for me to engage in a conversation about faith at the moment. It's too personal. However, the only way to be about what they believe should be the way they know is right for them. Sort of like the soul wish you know. Maybe a life's purpose.

I have seen enough otherworldly and crazy things to never take for granted this thing we call a universe. There is some hectic stuff going on. When I was a young adult attended a meditation intensive in a certain place. A Guru there, an Indian guru, between chanting and meditation, would speak words of wisdom to group explained that there are things above the mind so they cannot be understood with the mind. That idea has always stuck with me

No, I think that says it all. It's been a while since I've studied the sacred scriptures lols, so I know from hazy memory it claims to be the perfect and unchanging word of God many times.

Nah, that is not what has happened. The books DO claim to be the Word of God over and over and over in so many different ways. Now your going to come with "it's just an interpretation," is fallacious, it's like the bob the builder fallacy or something.

It does say what people think. The modern translations anyway.

As Renton in his Compendium to Good English Grammar says: there can be difference between what you intended to write and what you did, in fact, write. Of course that's not how he wrote it he had a good grammar unlike I.

Whatever the translations from the original text that come from the Sumerian full stop please see my most recent post.
Is anyone's guess and what the real meanings are - are aliens not God

Yeah I use voice reco and I'm drunk. How tacky to point out I didn't use a contraction apostrophe.

It's all above you there timber. I'm not playing this game with you when you know full well what it is am I supposed to pick up a Bible because I chucked mine in the recycler

Ok, I read this one second that's three strikes you're out. I'm not a man - I'm a transgender woman (???) I'm on hormones, I've got tits my sexuality is female my psychology is female. I can understand that you're ignorant and bigoted👺. And simply not worth arguing with. One day I will reply in covert with the evidence you required re the bibles claimed to be the word of God. I'll do that for a bit of fun. You call me a man and sir and Justin so never speak to me again you stuck up self-righteous god believing fetishist. Your true colours were worth seeing. Fiery little number aren't you. When I get out of kindergarten Pretend You Don't Know Me

These memes apparently from the ancient past by other artists.

Never claimed to be a woman. Transwoman. Stop stalking me or I'll call the cops

Call the cops? Will they come by and comfort you? You live in Britistan, don't you?

btw, you bastard, those breaded shrimp looked tasty af.

Now i'm jonesing for some.

They were awesome Sydney. Hope you got something good to eat

Justin expression 😊👍

I've got friends in the 50 states

Don't you start up Sydney I like you. Hard case I wasn't so sure about but will let that go on grounds of mental illness

Drinking wine no more "debate." Night losers

I just couldn't pass that up.

Lols 😇

Oh, I see what you meant by cowardly. I can assure I wanted you to see my posts.

I have replied below. I have notifications for any new posts in any string I am in. But I know a lot of guys on here wouldn't do that, too many pings.

Anyway get a life timber, I am not afraid of a debate with you - just tend to avoid debates with believers

The bible's carry on and on about being the word of God. And how the Jewish god and his word are infallible. How Jesus words are eternal and infallible.

HOW god and His word Are Inseparable
God and His Word cannot be separated from one another. Scripture bears witness that they are one: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). The written Word of God reveals His will and its eternal truth. Even though written by sin-corrupted man, it was authored by the Holy Spirit (2 Pet. 1:20, 21). Thus attempts to find differences between God's will and His written Word are foolish.
- this paragraph c/o Walt Lampi

Don't reply to me personally timber. Just face the wall and make your arguments. I probably won't reply

Don't call me Justin or we'll never speak again. Try it if you're not wanting to speak.

I told you I don't want to find the evidence because I hate reading the bible I put up the above meme like every meme I've done here because I want to make memes.

Your entire attitude is ad hominem. You trigger me off because your attitude is just disrespectful.

And here's a bit of ad hominem abuse that's true so therefore relevant. You're a self righteous twat. Every single time you've ever spoken to me it has been down-ways like you're my better when you don't know me from a bar of soap and your whole attitude is an abuse. Majority of the guys on here are not interested in the truth. Only in looking right not being right and you are no exception you twat

No, "no evidence." I know I'm right and didn't come on here to debate

I did back it up with a stack of refs to the Bible there above by an expert I doesn't have to be in my own words. I don't like reading the bible I think it is evil. This isn't a courtroom timber. The issue is clear and you are just playing games

And every time I quote some part that conclusively confronts the issue you will pick it apart the same way. Typical Believer

I am not digging out the parts that say it's the eternal and ever changing words of god I feel they are in there. I knew how this conversation would go from the beginning because I've argued with you before. People warned me not to argue with. You are a Believer, you believe in God. So you will always justify that instead of seeking the truth.

It was not I meant as an ad hominem abuse I feel is true snd relevant to this "debate." Believers alwaus argue the same way and I'm tired of it. BTW, I believe, there is passive-aggressive abuse in your posts always. The way ppl argue on the net.

Hey if I'm wrong and there's no part of the Bibles, and I always intended to include Genesis and the Jewish Bible in this and Quran.

Cowardly? That doesn't even make sense. Trust me I'm not a coward you don't know me at all. I've got nothing against the unbrave. But that's just a weird thing to say.

You are lucky I'm replying to you at all I was warned not to engage. Maybe I will magic up some choice bits of the Bible - when I'm good and ready.

Actually my samarian post hasn't been featured yet. I think because it has got Simpsons pictures in it. You know when Homer proves there's no God

Sumerian

OK, it is featured now. It is called these brain enhances a working out well. It's not really clever or anything it just says the Sumerian idea

Actually sorry if that came across rude timber I don't not like you. Some of your debate has been very interesting

I've been going through a touchy phase... for about 10 years