Well mary had other children Jude and James i believe others. Also i wouldn't say she was free of sin. That would make her like Christ.
Im sure Mary wouldn't want you to disrespect her boy Jesus

Just so you know, we don't believe Mary did not need salvation. Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross was as needed by her as for anyone living. But since God transcends time and space we believe he applied the merits of the Cross to her before she was born as apposed to after like the rest of us. So that is how she could be born without sin. Like she was baptised when she was concieved. If that makes any sense. We just think that God would have come by the best route possible to become Man. And that something sinless cannot be in something sinful so that is why Mary would have to be pure. I hope that helps! Don't hesitate to ask :)

Well this is my counter argument (pls this is only a freindly debate i hope you understand).
Jesus was sinless but he was able to sin since he took on human flesh, setting the example for us that we dont have to sin because we are human.
Now how does this tie in with a pure Mary. I will say this. Mary is probably one of the best women in the bible. But i do ask this was she ever tempted

She was tempted same as Jesus, but because of supernatural grace she was able to refuse sin. Can you tell me whether Adam and Eve were created with or without sin?

They were created with sin

So God created sin?

Well he allowed sin as part of free will

Sin is the turning away from God and a refusal to use the grace He gives to do good. It is choosing darkness over light. What would you define sin as?

Care to explain?

Can you tell me what exactly sin is?

Hi Kate, I'd like to provide you with my thoughts on this.

No, God did not create sin, but we were born, in sin, thus having what we know as Adamic Sin, or Sin Nature (Romans 6:14-16).

Because of that, Romans 3:23 says that ALL have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. That includes Mary, for she is as human as everyone else.

I know that you believe in Immaculate Conception. She must after all, be sinless, in order to give birth to the Son of God but there are holes to that doctrine.

1st - Do you recall Jacob wrestling with the Angel? We believe him to be none other than the pre-incarnate Christ, so if He is the 2nd person of the Godhead, Mary doesn't have to be completely sinless.

2nd - Jesus' incarnation involves Him aquiring a human body... and He must be in the line of David. That means Jesus is completely human... not some burning bush of a body where if one touches Him, s/he will instantly be incinerated. He is God in human form.

Fully God and Fully Man.

And that body, arguably, is infected with Original Sin. That is why He is, at all points, tempted as we are, but did not sin (Hebrews 4:15).

3rd - and finally, why didn't scripture tell us anything of Mary's sinlessness? Tradition, claiming that it fills the holes scripture did not speak of is no excuse.

The Bible says that ALL... have sinned ... and that doctrine contradicted clear reading of scripture.

"ALL have sinned" this must mean Jesus too since He is also fully human.

The difference is that Jesus is God, and Mary is no more than a human being.

And we agree. But she is not just like every other human. She has a special role in salvation because Jesus came into the world through her. Just lime the Ark of the Covenant wasn't an ordinary box

A special role indeed, she is blessed among women because she was given the privelage of giving birth to the Messiah; but no more than that.

She is not Co-Mediator, nor is she Co-Redemptix.

I sense you used to be Catholic, you are very well versed (albeit a little confused) in Catholic teaching.

Then I welcome any correction.

God? Oh yeah the hobo in the sky

Where in the Bible does it say Mary gave birth to other children? There is no Hebrew word for cousin so that is why James and John are called brothers. Is it disrespecting Jesus to say that he would choose to come into the world through a pure and spotless vessel like Mary?

I've read from CatholicAnswers that the word used for brothers can also apply to cousins.

Let's suppose that is so, that doesn't mean that Jesus had no brothers. Maybe Mary had remained a virgin... but what for? Why must she be a virgin? I suspect that such a doctrine is born of the mistaken belief that sex is sinful. Such a belief is sadly common until the late 19th century.

Scripture doesn't say why, or give evidence of, only that the word used for Brother can apply to cousins,

However, like any word, it is dependent on the context for which it was used. For example, just because the word "Saved" is used, doesn't mean it automatically means eternal salvation, or deliverance from Hell.

For example, Baptism. You see it spoken in scripture, and often it is spoken of as an ordinance. Those who've believed in Baptismal Regeneration tended to assume that it always speak of the rite. However, not always when you read Luke 12:50

50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Does that mean He wants to get baptised? Or is it talking about His death?

The Catholic church would be the first to defend sex as good and holy and not at all why we believe Mary is a Virgin. She wanted to be a Virgin from a young age and devote her life to God. He respecting that and yet providing for an earthly father for Jesus allowed her to keep her virginity in the marriage. Also if she and Joseph did have relations who's to say Jesus was really God at all but just another child of Joseph and Mary? To say His Father is divine would mean it was a divine conception.

They believed that was her intention, just because she had given birth to Jesus, as a virgin? If that doctrine is of such importance, why didn't scripture give more evidence for it?

That is pure conjecture which can only be supported by an extrabiblical claim.

"Also if she and Joseph did have relations who's to say Jesus was really God at all but just another child of Joseph and Mary?"

Now that is an interesting point, but that is no support for her perpetual virginity. It is more of a defense of her virgin birth than anything else.

Furthermore, the reason for her virginity has more to do with proving to the Jews, through signs and wonders, that Jesus is the Messiah (Hebrews 2:3-4).

The Jews have always depended on miracles to determine whether one is from God or not. Do you recall Exodus 3 where Moses asked God how couild he prove to them that he was sent by God? Signs and wonders in a form of a leprus hand.

In this case, they also had oral and written scriptures that predicted the virgin birth of Jesus (Isaiah 7:14).

Well it says his brothers mocked him

?

Im sorry i can't think of the reference

It's a matter of language. I'll post a link to a TL:DR answer, but the short of it is that Scripture was written in Greek. The word for "brother" is "aldephos (sister:"adelphe", plural "aldelphoi"). It was a word that meant "male kinsman", not specifically "son of the same woman".

https://www.catholic.com/tract/brethren-of-the-lord

The reasons Jesus spoke Aramaic and His disciples wrote in Greek, and why the language of Science, Law and the Church came to be in Latin, is also fascinating! It takes time to research, but it all makes sense when it is laid out!

I'm glad you commented, your points are valid ones that indicate a common lack understanding of Marian Doctrine. I hope I'm able to explain a little better in my awkward way. :)