Seriously, these antivaxxers are really starting to piss me off!

It's Gandhi, as spelled correctly in the first meme half.

Yes he DID in fact say it, so you are wrong about that. See https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/26525/did-gandhi-call-vaccination-a-barbarous-practice

I also argue that

2ailt4.jpg (click to show)

since the documentary, which is quite good, mostly let formerly disbelieving MD's tell what they discovered for themselves.

Dogma is not science. The truth is slowly coming out.

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Autism is not a disease, so one cannot get it from a vaccine. Furthermore, bullshit such as this is endangering those who are immunocompromised and cannot get vaccines and is allowing preventable illnesses to spread. Now, if you were arguing that the world was flat, I would just shrug it off, but this is NOT the kind of thing that can be shrugged off because YOU ARE ENDANGERING OTHER PEOPLE!

Watch the documentary Vaxxed and listen to the explanations of the ACTUAL md's on this issue as to why those other studies were bogus - RATHER than the misrepresentations of them by the Big-Pharma-controlled CDC and those who follow unquestioningly in their wake.

Then you'll understand the reality instead of the FUD. But not till then.

Remember the round earth was the slandered tiny minority once too in the face of everyone who KNEW it was flat. It took centuries for science to get people to look at the evidence and question and actually think in order to reverse the dogma

There is more to the story, and until you've looked at it, you don't have the true picture.

Mmmmm, well, unlike "knowing" that the earth is flat, there's a hell of a lot more evidence that's a lot more reliable to back up the fact that vaccines don't cause autism: https://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/do-vaccines-cause-autism
https://www.agingresearch.org/here-are-the-facts-about-vaccines/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA68bhBRCKARIsABYUGif7Gto88744zkj6aWg5rWGJC8J6B3hq1C7UfTEYf-JplGQ0TwUctnoaAjUjEALw_wcB
And even if I did humor you for a moment and believed that vaccines cause autism, then I would then like to ask why autism is so much worse than smallpox, influenza, whooping cough, etc. (Please keep in mind that you're speaking to someone on the spectrum).

Oh, I forgot, here's just one more source: https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccine-myths-debunked/

First it's not a "disease" in the sense that HIV of deafness is not a disease, - but it is a medical pathology. First-and-a-half, you still didn't acknowledge you were wrong about Gandhi. He was not an advanced medical expert, but he was qualified enough to observe aggregate effects for himself - and he did say that.

Second, there has been an extremely powerful, well-financed, and real suppression of the truth - exactly as there once used to be a suppression of the truth we take for granted today regarding the ills of tobacco. It used to be argued it was all subjective and against the received medicine. Till the reality could no longer be suppressed by the entities specifically trying to legally protect themselves from the liabilities they were perfectly well aware of all along for years. The pendulum finally swung - but it didn't happen overnight.

Third, the explosion of ASDs is real - and statistically now on an exponential increase. Used to be about a 1 in 10,000 sort of thing, now approaching 1 in 10, and in our lifetimes probably heading for close to 50%, I sh*t you not.

Fourth, you oversimplify the tradeoff. The whole either-or is a scare-tactic false dichotomy here fabricated by the industry to keep people from investigating and thinking for themselves. Suppose I asked you to practice real science instead of dogma and watch Vaxxed for yourself, where you could watch real, competent, knowledgeable MD's discuss the specifics of how vaccines could be done sanely and rationally without threatening herd immunities or anything like that, and how that sanity and rationality are suppressed. Suddenly poof goes your whole stereotype of "antivaxxers" as a bunch of illiterate, ignorant hicks - and you suddenly have an uncomfortable ethical responsibility to learn and open your eyes to the lies yourself about those about whom you repeated them.

Discomforting? Sure Alarming? For some, yes. But necessary for those who seek the truth in a society in which that is far scarcer than people realize? Absolutely.

Easy to get on Netflix. See for yourself just how precious little the emperor is wearing.
There's no substitute for thinking for yourself. None.

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1. I never said that autism was a disease. In fact, I said the opposite.
2. You clearly didn't click on that last link t hat provides evidence for vaccines being safe.
3. That's because there's much more awareness of ASD now, NOT because of vaccines!
4. So are you against vaccines or do you you want them to be made safer? If it is the latter, then I honestly have absolutely no problem with that. Also, I never embraced the stereotype that anti-vaxxers were illiterate or hicks and I have no idea what I said to give you that impression. I just think that people who don't vaccinate their kids are misled and are in turn putting both themselves and others at risk. Also, I apologize if you feel insulted by any of my comments. I have nothing against you in particular and I'm sure that you're probably a very nice lady/gentleman in real life, it's just that the spreading of misinformation REALLY ticks me off.

1. Reread for yourself: I didn't say you DIDN'T say it was a disease - in fact I said the opposite ;-) I allowed your point for technicality, and then pointed out the term was still relevant in the general sense on which I amplified.

2. I admit this is true, because I'm thoroughly familiar with the default disclaimers that's the case already - but have also extensively read MD's arguments for why to question that. I counter for example that you have in turn not visited vaxxter.com or vaxxedthemovie.com, both of which are useful sources, though the latter chiefly as a source for the documentary itself. You should listen to Dr Tenpenny take apart the straw-man fallacies and a hundred other bogus arguments by the conventionality - and you'll shake your head that they're capable of getting away with some of this stuff.

3. I believe this is clearly false and the numbers don't bear it out. Ask any MD in the business - anecdotal evidence or not - and they'll tell you what they can see for themselves. Naturally, I argue, the facts follow the phenomenon.

4. The line's blurry. As they operate now, there is basically ZERO industry liability/accountability, often enacted even into statute, and predictably as a result, almost contempt for science, and @$$-covering only instead. If you watch the MDs in the documentary, they flesh out the particulars of that line in much greater detail.

Similarly, the authors of the peer-reviewed study below, overthrowing the CDC's attempt to prevent any actual real vacc/non-vacc studies, take the same quasi-conventional line. But until we are honest with their data, we will be unready to investigate even questions like that. Ergo the first step is for example to examine it directly for the first lesson first:

https://www.oatext.com/Pilot-comparative-study-on-the-health-of-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-6-to-12-year-old-U-S-children.php

Again, as I always have here, I strongly encourage you to investigate and observe FOR YOURSELF.

I would qualify as gentleman, hopefully, but I also have enough experience in real life in observing how easy it is to manipulate people into assuming a declared "misinformation" actually is that and assume they will not question.

We vastly underestimate the importance of learning from the history of science and grasping it really is an evolving phenomenon in constant interplay with competing corrupting interests. I therefore reiterate: investigate for yourself.

Alrighty then... So I watched the documentary... And...