Once you admit that the possibility of God must lie outside of your knowledge, you go from atheist to agnostic.

You can't say there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster,
You can't say there is no Invisible Dragon in My Garage,
You can't say there is no Dandelion Fairies,
You can't say there is no Hogfather, unless you have total knowledge of the entire universe.

And:
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

True. But what if the two groups of knowledge IS the evidence? Knowledge contains information, and information only comes from intelligence. And intelligence only comes from an intelligent mind, or designer. Be it God, or alien, the coding must originate from something.

lol you can't say there is god without entire knowledge of the universe either

True. But God can let you know he exists. The universe is silent. The real question is which side do you want to be on?

Therefore, what is asserted WITH evidence can't be arbitrarily dismissed.

Nor can you say that your version of god is fact without any evidence

That is true. But remember, evidence is always filtered through one’s worldview.

Real science is doing your best to set aside your personal feelings on the matter, and following the evidence, even if it leads to answers you don't like. Starting with a conclusion is the realm of religion and politics

Exactly.

I have no firm answer for if a god of some sort might exist, but I haven't met one. The idea that some bearded guy that created billions of worlds would have the slightest concern about what people do naked, I firmly call bullshit

I would say that’s the beauty of it. That a God so immense and powerful would care to want to know us, to know every detail of our lives, even to the point of living as one of us and dying the most horrific death to show us he can relate to our suffering, and ultimately save us from anything, even death itself.

That's the hubris of it, out of billions of species, in billions of galaxies, we somehow are the favorite, but then, this vastly intelligent being is amazingly shallow about their concerns, almost like a poorly written character in a bad book

Are we really the favorite? Can we really assume we are the only creatures he has created in his image? If he is “no respecter of persons”, and loves all his creations, even the ones “not of this fold”, he does not show favoritism. In caring for everyone, he is not being shallow, but amazingly immense in his ability to love all. I’m just saying don’t make the mistake of putting God in a box. Look outside of your own understanding. He may just surprise you. ; )

Did you just assume "his" gender?

Lol.

Evidence filtered through the view a person is not evidence anymore. It becomes an opinion. This post is a clear example of that.

That’s exactly why we need a standard outside of ourselves to go by. Otherwise everything is a matter of opinion, and no one can say what is “right” or “wrong”. Murder and rape is not wrong, just a matter of personal opinion and preference. Without a God, or designer, it is just something that has been socially conditioned into our brains through millions of years of evolution. It all regresses back to...? When did the light go in in the first early man’s brain to tell him that killing was wrong? And if it benefitted him for survival, why would he stop, or even think it was “wrong”? The buck has to stop (or start) somewhere. I say it’s God, others will have to point to another intelligent source. But there has to be a standard outside of our own, or mankind’s circular logic will just screw it all up. Measurements won’t make sense with out a tape measure with, or a mathematical system to go by. Without a light in the world, we are all just stumbling in darkness.

Evidence is always filtered through the view of a person, and everyone has a bias. We cannot get away from that.

Okay dude. You have been cool in the section and open to opinion but I'm going to stop you there.

Don't try and pull a Steve Harvey.

You are doing what he is doing, which is believing that without God you have no morales or beliefs. That anything and everything is right.

You are not born with morales. Nobody gives you morales. You learn them yourself from your own opinion.

The terms right and wrong come from people sharing the same morales or ideas, no matter how good/bad they are. Women in the Middle East cover them selves up because men, who have oppressed women for a very long time, have the logic that since the women are showing themselves, they are temping the men. A lot of men apparently believed this and sadly most men still enforce this rule out of tradition or belief. This also kind of applies if I murdered somebody and blamed the weapon for the cause.

If you choose to believe that a higher being is responsible for YOUR morales and YOUR actions, that is when I draw the line.

You are responsible for 99% of what you do, the 1% is outside influence that motivates you.

Anyway I have been on this section for too long, being a keyboard warrior and talking about rights gets tiring the more you do it.

I hope you reconsider your thinking on this, or I hope I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

I agree when you say we are 100% responsible for our own actions. I think you misinterpreted me. I’m not saying that without God you can’t have morals. I’m saying that we get them from God. That an absolute moral standard exists, that was established by God. Whether you choose to follow it is up to you. (Which none of us can, by the way). C.S. Lewis put it this way: “I would not have known what a crooked line was, if it were not for a straight one.”

Ah, sorry for the unnecessary ranting then, my bad.

Now I’m pulling a Steve Harvey! ; D

Thanks, brother! : )

I never thought of that...27tryq.gif (click to show)
I just thought of them as "continuous upvotes"

Hundreds, if you just search "bible contradictions." They're really no different than Quran or Book of Mormon contradictions, which are just as easy to look up, if you're honest. This one's a passable example:

http://answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm

Here's just four I noted as an illustration to somebody once in a meme:

23lkyb.jpg (click to show)

And as I pointed out to someone, you can still even believe in a deity while rejecting Biblical literalism, but a lot of people are too terrified to even contemplate such a thing.

For every supposed “contradictions” in the Bible, there is a plausible and reasonable explanation and counter argument. That’s why the Bible has not been disproved in two thousand years. It totally stands alone from the Quran and other holy books as it has over 300 prophesies that have been predicted and fulfilled. No other book has ever done that. Modern archaeology even confirms it’s historicity. I could go on, but I’m sure you could too. And yes, you can believe in any diety you want, but there can be only one true God.

That's an article of faith, not the result of study. In my case, I made a study and was honest with the facts.

Take the predicted destruction of Tyre as only one example (and I've read the lame apologetic excuses for it, and they're completely invalid). You can't even say, "Oh, it's a prophecy, so it might still happen someday in the future," - because the Bible specifically stated *who* was going do it, *and* then admitted in its own text that that person did not do it. Which of course proves that the prophecy did in fact fail.

On the other hand, if that's too terrifying for you, I could spend years explaining it rationally, and you would be unwilling to admit even the possibility such a thing could ever be. So the real burden for examining such things - instead of blandly saying, "I'm sure some apologeticist *somewhere* has devised a really clever way around this somehow anyway," is really ultimately on you.

But if you want, as a possible example, Dems to look into say the Hillary closet, you have to be fair and be willing to be fearless about similar things yourself. Just sayin'.

Well, facts are facts, but faith goes both ways too. Where some see evidence for creation, some see evidence for evolution. All science is filtered through one’s worldview. Where science ends, faith begins, whether it’s faith in God, or in mankind and it’s best theories.
I will definitely look into that Tyre reference. (And some of the others too, when I find the time). But even if there are minor discrepancies, it still doesn’t change the message of the gospel. Or solve the problem of where we will spend eternity after death. To be continued, my friend...

Everything and anything is possible

With God, all things are possible. Except maybe a square circle... ; )

1+1 cannot equal 3 in the standard mathematics agreed upon my mathematicians in the United States of America

Exactly!

That same statement can be used against you. If YOU don't have full knowledge of the universe how do YOU know there is a god, you cannot deny people's beliefs about a "higher" being.

This almost falls into the category of life on other planets, except that statement makes sense. there are so many universes and stars there is bound to be one where another life is present.

The difference is that the belief of god or an all knowing sentient being is purely based on stories and beliefs. Not facts or data. Nobody has actually proved or made some actual connection that there is somebody all watching us. The claims that do exists have usually nothing/little facts to back it up.

My advice is to not wrack your brain over these small things. You shouldn't get into arguments with other people based on that belief. Both atheists and people who strictly believe in god are wrong IMO. It is better to just not care that an all powerful being is watching you or not, just don't care.

You are correct in saying it goes both ways. I, or anyone else, can not prove God to anyone. Only God himself can do that. And he has in my life, and millions of people’s lives all over the world.

The best way I can describe it is that if you have never tasted a particular food before, and someone were to tell you what it tasted like, you wouldn’t really know what it tasted like until you actually try it yourself. If course it’s more involved than that, God is not something you merely try, But if He could be easily described and understood, He wouldn’t be God.

I respect your opinion on the matter, but in my opinion it is better to believe in a creator who loves us and will not only be there for us when we leave this earthly world, but will help us and guide us in this life also. It’s also comforting to know that there will be justice for all the wrong that has been done in the world. For without justice, what is the point in having life in the first place? To me, the atheistic viewpoint is like riding a runaway train, barreling down the tracks with no one at the controls, and no destination to reach.

But of course this is my opinion. Thanks for responding to my meme. If the subject really bothers you, why not try to genuinely disprove God and the Bible? I have seen that it’s one of the best ways to become a believer! ; )

I don't like to genuinely disprove of God and the Bible because doing that is being a real asshole. People are entitled to what they believe in and honestly if you believe in a higher being, go for it, it is not my place to judge what you believe. I just say I'm in the middle, I'm open to the belief of God (since I do sometimes pray) and the nonexistence of it as well. I don't care if you believe in God, there are people who have be raised to believe it and it is just their way and tradition, and tradition is one of the hardest habits to let go of.

Well said. It’s always good to keep an open mind, believer or not. Even if I wasn’t a Christian, I think that Pascal’s Wager is still pretty convincing. (ie; you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain). I believe that deep down, everyone really knows God exists, some just choose to suppress it. Just beware of traditions and religion. Those are two of the things that Jesus came to free us from. ; )