Unpopular Opinion Puffin

ok, three things, 1. preparedness for parents to be parents and raise a child to be a functioning member of society... 2. psyhological, social, and physical health of child growing up in sub-poverty conditions with unwilling or incapable parents.... 3. Adoption centers and foster homes are overburdened, and some of those foster parent types are just cooky. its a f**ked up system that in many ways does more harm to the child. So, if you can abort before the phase where the fetus is self-aware, you are saving the child from undue suffering, yourself from undue suffering, and society and the natural world from undue burdens. also, with modern techniques, abortion can be done safely without any harm to reproductive organs of a woman. She can have another... when she's actually capable of supporting the child; economically, mentally, and with some wisdom. 18 year old brood mothers are a detriment to society. these young women need educations and to actually become true adults before they can teach a child to become an adult. after all, that is what you are having... and adult. not some little goo goo gaga baby. thats a phase, not an end result. learn anything yet? probably not. rational logic barely overcomes emotional psychosis.

I have always given the highest value to innocent human life, and unborn children at any stage to me are the definition of innocent. I had an older cousin that had a baby out of wedlock (the only instance of that in my family) and he was adopted very quickly, she keeps tabs on him (but he won't be told until he's older) and it was for the best, making the most of a bad choice by doing what was best for him.

very well, and good for him. he's one of the lucky ones. unfortunately, lucky doesn't cover every life out there... preventative measures do. and a depending on how you define life, there is a clear point at which a fetus becomes "alive". abortion is still viable. Also, believe it or not, abortion using herbal remedies to induce miscarriage has been around for years and years, among many many different cultures worldwide. it's only since the latest christian "holier than thou, lets start a theocratic democracy" craze, that the debate has become such a big deal.

Adoption! Survey! And don't some people get more money the more kids they have?

not enough to actually support the child. do the math.

Ahh, I was not aware of that. Sorry if I sounded super self-righteous (which I did). However, adoption would be fine as long as the kid was ok.

... you are assuming that a kid is born in the first place. my argument is to stop this from happening BEFORE a kid comes into being. as far as self-righteousness, its almost impossible to avoid on such a "moral" and "ethical" issue. regardless of which way you sway.

I see, true. As my stance is that abortion is bad, I would not abort the kid. For most people, the reason is that there is no money or they can't take care of the kid, so finding another way so the kid lives without inconveniencing the parents.

and i take the opposing viewpoint, its not a kid until born or somewhere into third trimester, and by parents who arent ready to have children, whether is economically, psychologically, or emotionally unprepared, does more to inconvenience the ADULT being born in the long run, than the parents. the thing is only a child for 18 years, but hase to live with those 18 years for the rest of its 80 something life (presumably)... therefore, if a parent, or group of parents is unprepared, it is better to abort and delay bringing another life into existence, that you will be inconveniencing.

Well, I agree to disagree.

And i thank you for being civil about it.

Translation:

You think it's better to murder and violate the rights of a person because it inconveniences a woman than to let them choose their life.

You pro abortion types are the worst when it comes to logic.

I bet you think circumcision is fine though. :{

your translator is broken... horribly so. and seeing as we live in a 1st world nation, circumcision is no longer necessary. however, once upon a time, it was. research your history. Also, sometimes the pregnancy inconveniences the man too.

ROFL!

Translation: you've got nothing.

It's murder either way, doesn't matter who wants the the baby dead.

Stop trying to justify murder.

What historical inaccuracy did I present that would need more historical research?

Oh, that's right, you just love to talk without ever making a valid point. :{

do youre own research, arguing with you is useless as youre only looking to browbeat. my points!

The fetus up to a certain point is not self aware or truly alive, therefore it is not murder to abort or halt a pregnancy.

Circumcision was based upon a medical reason in areas where cleanliness wasnt always an option. Foreskin, in dirty areas, is a perfect place for things like cellulitis and other bacterial infections that love, dark, cramped, sweaty places to thrive and cause diseases within unclean humans. It was popular in both world wars, recomended or at least warned against in infantry batallions today, and was religious law created to ensure the thriving of the jews whilst they lived in arid places without many chances to bathe....

Stop being an ignorant ass and learn to rationally consider opposing points of view. k thx

Coherent thought much?

You said I need to research history. WHAT HISTORY? Don't make a claim you can't back up kid.

Life = the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

So a zygote or a fetus is by definition living, you stupid murder condoning twat.

Abortion has to be called abortion so that women don't feel AS GUILTY as they ALL naturally do from getting one.

It's sad that idiots like you try so hard and fail every time to justify the violation of individual's rights by murdering them.

The women's body ends where the new individual's(unborn citizen) begins.

And why are you trying to explain circumcision? To deflect from your condoning of murder I'm sure, that's why it's the largest paragraph in your comment.

Circumcision was practiced in ancient times starting with the Egyptians and then picked up by the love of cleanliness of the Hebrews, BUT with the advent of antiseptics, became OBSOLETE.

"Stop being an ignorant ass and learn to rationally consider opposing points of view. k thx"
Says the fool trying to condone both murder and rights violations. *sighs at your stupidity.

You use the word rationally without being able to understand it.

If you were rational you'd see that you're condoning murder and violating an unborn citizen's rights, you stupid git.

Until your feeble mind can grasp that, don't attempt arguing futile invalid points kid. :{

arguing with you is like watching a dog chase its tail; its amusing, but a waste of time. Your entire argument is emotional. no rational or objective thought.
did mommy or daddy threaten to abort you a time or two as a child?

regardless, i'll argue for the sake of ruining your self-righteous child-mind.

Until the thing has it's own brain, its nothing more than a bunch of cells that are on the way to becoming alive.

GUILT, is a learned response, so of course being attacked by a bunch of self-righteous unintelligent bigots, like yourself, might make someone with a weaker character or compromised feel guilty or shameful. Hence the term "guilt-tripping"

Lastly, as far as ignorance goes, thank you, i've learned something new about the orgins of circumcision :) oddly enough, you've only supported my claim that it was used to prevent DISEASE.

Also you dumb twat, for INFANTRY battalions, in WARTIME, its damned hard to ensure SOLDIERS can have constant access to MEDICAL facilities on a front line. Hence the sometimes necessity of circumcision. My argument, is that objectively speaking, circumcision does have a valuable place in the medical world, i was not saying yay or nay as far as "Should" you... but i must admit, not having to clean my foreskin every time i get in a shower or have sex, is convenient.

Now, lastly, any rational person would tell you, that arguing with an emotionally irate person, is a moot point. at this point, its just fun to see how angry i can make you before your little brain pops. ;) consider your futile invalid points, argued!

lol This is going to be easy and fun.

"arguing with you is like watching a dog chase its tail; its amusing, but a waste of time."

Immediately followed by paragraph after paragraph of a fool trying so hard to condone murdering an unborn citizen. lol

"Your entire argument is emotional. no rational or objective thought. "

lol Seriously? That's all you got isn't kid?

Defending a person using logic is guess what objective AF. lol

"did mommy or daddy threaten to abort you a time or two as a child?"

As far as insults go, this sounds like 13 year old's response to being wrong. lol

"regardless, i'll argue for the sake of ruining your self-righteous child-mind."

No, you'll argue an invalid point because you're stupid enough to. Don't kid yourself.

"Until the thing has it's own brain, its nothing more than a bunch of cells that are on the way to becoming alive. "

As I've already proven the fetus/zygote is living by definition, your invalid point is already negated.

"GUILT, is a learned response..." lol You obviously are grasping for anything to attack me on instead of focusing and trying to make a valid point.

Abortion is called abortion because calling it murder would cause women to feel even more guilt over killing a person who is innocent out of the selfish woman's own inconvenience.

"Lastly..." followed by THREE MORE PARAGRAPHS. lol

No one ever said it wasn't used to avoid disease you stupid twat. lol You say that as if you've somehow made progress out of that hole you dug for yourself.

"Also you dumb twat..." Ah yes, imitation, the highest form of flattery to some, to me, the lowest form of intelligence displayed by a fool who couldn't argue its way out of a wet paper bag.

No, soldiers don't have to have circumcisions, they need to just not rape women or have sex with prostitutes overseas. That's the whole reason for circumcision.

An uncircumcised p**is doesn't get diseased from just peeing and sweat, otherwise ALL HUMANS WOULD HAVE DIED OUT LONG AGO, You stupid git.

"My argument, is that objectively speaking..." OMFG

THE ARGUMENT ISN'T EVEN F**KING ABOUT CIRCUMCISION KID. YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO DEFLECT FROM YOUR LOST ARGUMENT OF MURDERING CHILDREN BEING OKAY. lol

"Now, lastly..." OMFG AGAIN LOL! How many times are you going to imply that you're on your last point kid? lol That's some seriously f**king retarded speech skills their kid.

And the last part you just admit your a troll. lol Keep trying kid. ROFL!!! :{

by your definition of living, bacteria and cancer should be allowed to thrive without human intervention as well yes? even if it is detrimental to the life already present? yeesh. now, before your head explodes, im not saying children are on the same level of zygotes and fetus's, i'm simply saying that before such a stage as the thin is self aware, or would be put through pain, it's not morally or ethically wrong to abort the pregnancy. in other words... to stop a process before it comes to completion.

Also, i did not say soldier HAVE to have circumcision (since you are so stuck on this) i said it is beneficial... imagine if you will being in a desert, UNCLEAN, for months at a time... not much water for bathing. you ability to comprehend the complexity of variable affecting any one issue seems to be nonfunctional.
now, once again, my argument is not for or against circumcision, i'm still personally on the fence about it. I can simply entertain both sides of an argument at the same time. child-minds are incapable of such. such as those who claim so emotionally claim "MURDERER" when someone stops a pregnancy before it becomes true, self-aware, pain feeling, human life.

Yes, guilt is learned. If you are taught to feel guilty about something, you will feel guilty. otherwise, if there weren't such hot-headed (dare i say again) bigots, such as yourself, shaming women from having a child, there'd be much less guilt and we wouldnt have so many problems... but there's always an asshole like you that's got to get bent out of shape about something.

Lastly, you accuse me of deflecting from an argument about abortion... this coming from the one who brought up circumcision in the first place... riiiight.

its funny to me, that the only way you can truly back up you emotional argument, is to try and attack my intelligence... funny and sad.

as far as calling you emotional and irration... its all that i need in order to throw your entire argument out of the window.

now lastly, yes, i troll the troll, because it's fun to beat an asshole at his own game.

(damn, too bad i don't have the points for meme comments yet, planned on leaving dicaprio's cheers with text... oh well)

"i await your next expulsion of idiocy with a smirk and glass of glass of wine"

*sighs Here we go again.

Explain how you think my logic means that cancer and bacteria should be allowed to live.

Because my logic is clearly stated as HUMANS deserve the right to live, not bacteria/cancer/animals/etc. You really suck at debate kid.

"to stop a process before it comes to completion." God you're retarded. THAT'S WHAT CONTRACEPTIVES ARE FOR YOU DUMB TWAT!

"Also, i did not say soldier" OMFG again with the deflections.

Kid, learn how to stick to the subject okay? I mentioned circumcision as a way to show your double standards.

You only pretend to be against it partially, but then still try and weasel in a way to justify mutilation as well as murder of an unborn citizen.

*sighs at how incredibly stupid you are. "(since you are so stuck on this)" YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KEEPS BRINGING IT UP! You're obviously just a troll kid.

"now, once again, my argument is not for or against circumcision," No one f**king cares, because the argument IS OVER ABORTION BEING MURDER NOT CIRCUMCISION.

" can simply entertain both sides of an argument at the same time. child-minds are incapable of such. such as those who claim so emotionally claim "MURDERER" when someone stops a pregnancy before it becomes true, self-aware, pain feeling, human life." You're just an idiot, aren't you kid? lol Emotions have nothing to do WITH LOGIC NOR ETHICS.

It's simply wrong to kill an innocent person, which retarded people like you can't grasp for some reason.

"Yes, guilt is learned. " OMFG can you make an argument? Seriously kid, can you?

"if there weren't such hot-headed (dare i say again) bigots, such as yourself, shaming women from having a child" *facepalms hard Oh my God, you really are retarded.

Yeah kid, cause it's so wrong and asshole-ey to give a damn about millions of people being murdered before they can even defend themselves. *laughs at how retarded your argument has been so far.

"Lastly," ROFL!!! I didn't bring up circumcision as another argument though, I made a passing reference to your double standards with it. In the last sentence of my comment about abortion you stupid git.

"its funny to me, that the only way you can truly back up you emotional argument, is to try and attack my intelligence... funny and sad. " All you can do is try to deflect and attempt to make me look emotional about something that is JUST LOGIC. It's LOGICAL that murder is wrong.

"yes, i troll..." Yeah, exactly, you're just a troll kid. :{

wow. y'know what? this is not about rationale or logic or truly gaining insight or understanding for you is it? you simply see someone who has a viewpoint that differs from you to the point that you think you can shout them into a hole and claim you won. your entire argument is full and anger, hate, and stupidity. Arguing with you is not top on my list of priorities, i simply gave you enough rope to hang yourself with; and to the intelligent observer, you have.

to end this argument, by your earlier definition of life, sperm cells and eggs are life forms too, so every time you use a condom, birth control, or get a bl***ob, youre murdering countless life forms. your guilt must be stifling.

I for one see abortion as another form of contraceptive. i'm not trolling at all. i'm stating my opionion truthfully and completely. you, who would go off an every little point, then accuse me of bringing up what you initially brought up in conversation... and i quote.

"Translation:

You think it's better to murder and violate the rights of a person because it inconveniences a woman than to let them choose their life.

You pro abortion types are the worst when it comes to logic.

I bet you think circumcision is fine though. :{"

to end this. there is NOTHING that you can do to convince me that abortion is murder.. especially when it saves the mother, father, and more importantly the child, from a lifetime of economic, societal, and emotional strife in this f**ked up society. Call it whatever you want psychopath, intelligent people know better. We've lived it.

[image deleted]Yeah you've already said you were a troll kid, so I'm not reading your comments.

You can't even formulate a valid argument anyways. :{

So we should kill people so that way they don't have a tough life.

I think that's their decision to make, no?

are you advocating suicide?

You're advocating murdering them so they won't have a tough life. I think we should let them make the decision. Call me crazy, but that's just me.

having been one of those tortured children, i can tell you first hand that i would gladly go back in time and tell my mother to abort... yet if i choose to leave this existence behind now, i would be called mentally ill for being suicidal... while yes, it is a decision that i should choose myself. However, as far as the cited reasons i've posted elsewhere on this comment section, the damage has been done. and no, its not murder, it's choosing to deny the life, life, before it becomes life. preventative measures. what you're describing in a wierd way, IS murder, or at least promoting suicide... seriously, stop thinking with your emotion, use a little hindsight, and foresight, and gain insight into all aspects of a situation, before you accuse someone of murder. ty.

While I'm sorry for what you suffered through, your personal experience doesn't mean everyone else would rather have never had a chance at life. And no, I'm not promoting suicide. I'm saying that the devision to die should be mine, not my mom's. What if one of those kids had wanted to live? It's not my nor your decision to make. I'm sorry you feel that way about your life, but that opinion I'm sure is not shared by many other people.

Also, abortion is murder; It's a living being that will grow to become self-aware (If it isn't already). I am not basing this on my emotions; I'm stating facts. Everyone has the right to live.

well then, lets just start making suicide booths available for all the ones that choose after the horrible things have been done to them, instead of being told to wait until a later date to come into this world. we are souls not bodies. getting an abortion is simply saying... not yet. especially since as you put it... ITS NOT EVEN SELF AWARE YET! it doesnt know its alive, it doesnt have brainwaves yet, its just a clump of biological mass called cells. and seeing as the mother would most likeley be able to have another (so long as we make abortion clinics professional instead of forcing young women to go see Carlos in his minivan). Clearly NOT murder. also, i dont want your pity, i simply want for our society to stop thinking like a bunch of idiots and start collectively controlling our own populations before we overtax our biosphere. and yes, anyone with half a brain can tell you that we can and ARE overtaxing our biosphere.

Finally, why is it only your moms choice? shouldnt your father have some input as well? i mean he's the one thats going to be held financially responsible or have his balls cut off after all. fair is fair.

All I got out of that rant is you want suicide booths and you think were all going to die of over-population. Idek. I have no IDEA what you're even talking about anymore, lol. Cutting his balls off? For what? XD

nope, im done. if you truly had any insight into the argument, you'd not need much more clarification than this.