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Creepy Condescending Wonka

Creepy Condescending Wonka Meme | DO YOU LIKE POLICE, FIREFIGHTERS,  COURTS, PRISONS, GARBAGE COLLECTION, SCHOOLS, BRIDGES, ROADS, LIBRARIES,  POLIO VACCINE, MUSEUMS, MILITAR | image tagged in memes,creepy condescending wonka | made w/ Imgflip meme maker
3,080 views 5 upvotes Made by anonymous 10 years ago in fun
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16 Comments
[deleted]
1 up, 10y
https://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/3/29/1078852/-75-Ways-Socialism-Has-Improved-America
[deleted]
1 up, 10y
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[deleted]
2 ups, 10y,
2 replies
None of those things are means of production, and the defining trait of socialism is public ownership of the means of production. You are proposing a false dilemma between socialism and anarchy. Most non-socialists agree that there is a place for government involvement in many areas, and for government supremacy in a subset of those.
[deleted]
1 up, 10y,
1 reply
You're thinking of communism
[deleted]
2 ups, 10y,
1 reply
I'm really not.
[deleted]
1 up, 10y
No, really you are.
[deleted]
1 up, 10y,
1 reply
Read the part between [8] and [9] really closely.
From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

What ypu are insinuating is there is no private ownership of production. Which is closer to communism.

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Socialism is a political ideology and movement[1] which has proposed a set of social and economic measures, policies[2] and systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production.[3][4][5][6][7][8] Social ownership may refer to public ownership, cooperative ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.[9] Although there are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[10] social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[7][11][12]
[deleted]
1 up, 10y,
1 reply
I made no such insinuation. What I said was that none of the things you listed are means of production. Military, police, fire, and courts are not productive, but we have them because our world is less than ideal and the friction that results from various sub-optimal interactions calls for institutions to deal with it. Wars don't produce useful things (the economic activity they generate in producing materiel always robs from the potential production of actually useful things, and any spoils of war are simply theft writ large or compensation for damages to zero out the balance), but it's often better to fight a war that comes to you than it is to ignore it. Criminal activity is similar to war in that respect. Fire departments don't produce anything but rather limit the damage from destructive events. Civil courts settle disputes that, in an ideal world, would not need third-party arbitration. It's better to have that arbitration than to let disputes boil over into unregulated violence, but that just makes courts the least wasteful of wasteful means of approaching the problem.

I'll admit that schools might be considered a means of production, but that's open to interpretation.
[deleted]
1 up, 10y
the Oxford English dictionary defines socialism as you do, but then adds, "Now also: any of various systems of liberal social democracy which retain a commitment to social justice and social reform, or feature some degree of state intervention in the running of the economy," which fits fairly well with the definition used in this post. In the US, this second definition is probably the most commonly understood meaning of "socialism."

The spirit of socialism is summed up well in the phrase: "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." In a democratically governed country one way each can provide according to their ability and each can receive according to their need is through taxes and government services, respectively.

How the link I posted uses it is very accepted definition by most of the US....left AND right.
1 up, 10y,
1 reply
[deleted]
2 ups, 10y,
1 reply
Taxes pay for social programs and things used by the society as a whole. Like roads. And Social Security and the MILITARY for instance.

Also- Corporate subsidies are paid for by the Tax Payers. So in a way we own a part of those companies, no? If not...We should, right? I mean they use OUR money to boost THEIR profits, right?

So, yes ALL the things listed are made (roads etc) and PAID for by TAXES so they are owned by the people. So in a very easy to see way the "means of production" was paid for (paid by and owned by) the public.
1 up, 10y,
2 replies
Our economy only started really going socialist with "gimme programs", redistribution. That shit has gone overboard in this country since "O" brought his special brand of change. taking . Actually socialism is the transitional reform before communism... it works for a while,... but not forever.
[deleted]
2 ups, 10y
Nah- many "socialist" countries have been so for a LONG time and have no plans (or so it would seem) of going to Communism. In fact China is going the opposite direction. We wouldn't need "gimme programs" if the wealth in this country was distributed more equitably. Real wages for workers have gone up a fraction of CEO pay and Corporate profits.
[deleted]
2 ups, 10y,
1 reply
You may also notice on this chart that since 1970 (as in the previous chart) Top Marginal Tax Rates overall have been going down down down. Our HEYDAY was the 1950's when they were at their highest. Weird huh? (Bigger version: http://i.huffpost.com/gen/267149/MARGINAL-TAX-RATES.jpg)
1 up, 10y,
1 reply
and the cost is now,... $18T of debt.. Your great grandkids are screwed. Our economy is too big for socialism,.. and our borders too open. How many socialist states have failed?
[deleted]
1 up, 10y
How many Quasi-Democratic Repubublics turned Crony Capitalist Corporatocracies have succeeded?

PS- we need a shift, maybe not to full blown China style socialism, but the middle class is DISAPPEARING and the profits and productivity are through the roof. Where is all the money going? Where are all the job creators' jobs? Where is the trickle down?

Consider Nick Hanauer (Billionaire) when he explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI
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DO YOU LIKE POLICE, FIREFIGHTERS, COURTS, PRISONS, GARBAGE COLLECTION, SCHOOLS, BRIDGES, ROADS, LIBRARIES, POLIO VACCINE, MUSEUMS, MILITAR