Making a dogmatic, absolute statement like "God cannot be shown to exist in reality" and expecting people just to go along with you just because it's your opinion... Realistic, or unrealistic? You decide.
So, because we can't prove the non existence of "Gods" the default position should be a belief in Gods? You know no one can prove the nonexistsnce of rainbow unicirns, flying through space, sitting pizza and pissing lemonade either. That's why the logical default is to believe in the things we have compelling evidence for. So if you have evidence of a God or Gods, you really should share it
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not here saying "God exists because you can't prove he doesn't."
I'm here pointing out that your description of God as an "imaginary friend" shows that you don't take the topic seriously enough to credibly critique others' views, as you did in the original meme.
I'm also pointing out that your statement "God can't be shown to exist in reality" is hogwash, basically. What are the premises that led you to that conclusion? What is your basis for making an absolute statement like that?
It sounds like you're generalising from your position that you haven't seen any evidence for God to the conclusion that "therefore no evidence for God is even possible." Which doesn't logically follow.
Thanks for sharing with me your broad-brush statement about the impossibility of demonstrating God's existence, without giving any reason to back it up. I'm sure to take your mere statement of unfounded opinion seriously, since your understanding of theology and philosophy is so good. Lol.
I especially liked the part where you said "theology and philosophy aside" first before talking about God's existence. Discussions of God's existence are by definition theological and philosophical.
Yes discussions of God are theological and philosophical, because no God can be shown to exist. Even the phylosophicall arguments are not compelling. If wrong about ones ability to prove God's existence than by all means prove it. The world is waiting.
If you're saying that the philosophical arguments are not compelling, that implies that you have checked some of them out, and rejected them for some reason (because surely you wouldn't be foolish enough to just make a blanket statement that no argument is compelling if you didn't know what they were).
So, could you tell me please which ones you have checked out so far, and why you didn't find them compelling to you?
You need to read up on what the Jews believed in when it comes to Satan. There is no devil/Lucifer/evil entity that controls eternal punishment for them and that idea/concept of it came from Greek/Roman paganism.
To the Jews Satan meant the adversary of God and was only the propensity of evil in humans. And there isn't a Hell as we know it. There is Sheol the land of the dead where ALL souls go after death and await the Resurrection.
Christianity was infiltrated by the Greek/Roman pagans like Constantine and they corrupted the Word of God to try and trick people into a false religion that is really a form of paganism. That religion is called Catholicism and is the "synagogue of satan" that is mentioned in Revelation. They even went so far as to corrupt the Messiah's name from His true name of Yehoshua to "Jesus Christ" which is a bastardization of Zeus, a pagan god. This is to try and steal souls away from the true God and into their false gods.
And they like to hide it in plain sight sometimes. We've all heard that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist right? Well that is a quote from a satanist named Charles Bouldaire who knew of all this and is trying to get people to believe in a false entity.
I don't know what they said to you to make you think that Allah from Islam isn't the same as Yahweh from the Bible, but they are misleading you into bigotry and false teachings. :l
They are the same and they are not the same. Same as in they are allegedly the one true God, creator, and God of Abram, but obviously a side by side comparison of the God from the bible and the one from the Quran are not the same being.
You do realize that the Quran, the Bible and the Torah are all "Abrahamic" religions and all based on the original Tanakh(first five books of the Bible)? They're interpretations of the same event.
What differences are you referring to? So far from what I've read of the three, there the same.
Also, did you read what I was saying about Satan? That's the truth. The idea of a being that controls a realm for wicked souls and torments them eternally comes from paganism, not the Bible. So Allah couldn't be "the devil" because there is only God(Yahweh/Allah) and us. Yehoshua(Messiah) was God in human form. I'm not saying that Muhammed was though. He was a man and a prophet. The radical Muslims are like the Islamic version of the KKK. They have hate and evil in them and want to misinterpret God's Word to fit their goal of killing "infidels". :l
Well the main difference would be each God claiming completely different yet only paths to heaven. And radical muslims are nothing like the KKK. Radical muslims are simply fundimentalist who are following the Quran. Also, anyone can be a Muslim yet only white people can join the kkk.
So no actual verses from the Qur'an then? Have you ever read any of it? Because if you haven't even cracked that book open to at least try and understand it, you don't know anything about it.
The path to heaven you think it has is the radical Muslim interpretation of it and a false one. I was saying that radical Muslims are similar to the KKK, not tantamount to it, so stop jumping to conclusions. Radical Muslims also don't want just anyone in their religion or communities. So yeah, Arab KKK. Because the KKK were fundamentalist Christians that were misinterpreting verses form the Bible to say that Blacks weren't human and were a result of the curse of Ham(Noah's son who lusted after him and was cursed with dark skin).
You don't seem to really know much about these religions, you should try looking into them more to get the bigger picture and to better understand the Word of God.
Allah is just the Arab word for God. But it's the same God of Abraham. Just because a fundamentalist portion of their religion is radical and holds radical views of what it takes to receive Salvation doesn't mean that ALL of them share that same view. There are many denominations of Christianity that hold differing views as well. The Mormons believe if your name isn't in one of their members book you won't go to heaven.
And again, did you understand what I was saying about Satan in the Bible? :l
I was a Christian for 25 years, even gave sermons in church, memorized entire chspters. And I have read the Quran Maulana Muhammad Ali translation, though I studied that as an agnostic atheist.
And yes, I understand exactly what you were saying about Satan and the bible, but again to me it's just squabbling over imaginary things.
I need evidence to believe In a God. I can test gravity, observe light, see the earth is round, look at pictures of my brain...I can see no scientific method for rationalizing a God and to precede as if Gods existence were factual seems foolish.
Do you believe in evolution? Because there isn't actual scientific proof of it and it is a theology and a faith based system. That would be the same thing as believing in God without proof.
To me I have all the proof I need. I can ask God things and get "signs" But tell people that and they either assume I'm stupid or seeking the sign and finding it because I looked. What I mean is if I;m out on a starry night and ask God for confirmation, a shooting star or some other sign is shown. But that is how it works. God speaks to each individual and you can't just tell someone about it. They have to accept God in their heart first, then know what to ask and how to ask it.
So, you can go ahead and call me crazy and stupid now, I just thought I would tell you that.
But also, Why would God allow you to "prove" Its existence? Life is a test and like a parent God doesn't want people to be spoiled and just do everything for them or hold their hand through life like a child. God is a guide and wants us to be righteous. You might think that's foolish, but to me, it;s more than foolish to not accept God. It's arrogant and ungrateful. :l
I believe in evolution so fare as it's the best answer science has. Also there is far more evidence for evolution as their is for the existence of any specific God.
The sign argument is strange to me, especially if the sign is something as common place as a shooting star.
Why would god allow you to prove his existence? Well that depends on the God. If we are talking a Chritian/Muslim god like this meme, than it would be pretty damn immoral to send billions of people to hell for not believing in what hasn't been shown to exist.
Evolution doesn't have proof or evidence, it has speculation. It's a scientific theory that is accepted because scientists need a model to try and predict future outcomes. But the problem is that it has no way to be proven since radiometric dating is a method taken on faith(we can't observe half lives for millions of years so the data we get is speculation, our best guess) and the fossil records are being manipulated to show ancestral species when in fact some if not most are fraudulent. If you look at a dorudon skeleton it's actually a beluga whale. And it;s the same for hundreds of other ancestral skeletons. Darwin was a theologist who came up with the idea that we evolved. He had a biased opinion of creation from the beginning and was looking for a alternative to the Biblical account. And essentially made on up. It sounds good on paper, but in practice it's not feasible. There are tons of scientists who write about this, but by going against the only accepted theory so far they commit career suicide by speaking against it. It's the same with the man made climate change agenda. Anyone who speaks against it is dismissed. All I;m saying is you need to look into it more than what a single source or what the media/academia is pushing. They want to get people away form God to make us easier to control. If they can convince enough people there is no God, then all our rights given to us by God are easier to strip away. It's a large conspiracy, but don;t let that word make you think it means it isn't true. Please, give it a chance and at least look at the skeletons the claim are ancestral and compare them to modern creatures.
Did you read my other posts? I already said that God doesn't send people to hell. They go to a holding place(Sheol) essentially and await the Resurrection.
What I was saying about he shooting star is that if I ask for a sign and look up, as soon as I do there is a shooting star. That's more than coincidence. Especially since it's happened hundreds of times. But it's something the individual has to ask of God. What I mean is, if you wanted that proof, you would have to start speaking to God asking and telling It how you feel and that you need It to give you a sign.
God sends all souls to Sheol. The souls of the wicked(Hitler types) will simply cease to exist(same thing as if there weren't a God). The righteous obtain Salvation which is Heaven on Earth. This happens after Messiah has returned though and may not happen anytime soon. :l
I believe jrcampbell is right on this, to highlight the fundamental differences between Christianity and Islam.
The two main differences (that I know of so far) are these:
A. Who God Is
The Bible's God is triune. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each fully God, and distinct persons who relate to each other, although there is only one God.
The Quran specifically denies the Incarnation (they don't believe Jesus Christ is fully God), by saying that God cannot be associated with anything creaturely in that manner. The concept of the Trinity would be blasphemy to Muslims. It's not the same God.
B) The Way of Salvation
In Christianity, salvation is fundamentally by grace. That is, that is based ultimately not on what we do or don't do, but on the merits of Jesus Christ, freely granted to people by God.
In Islam, salvation is ultimately by works. Our good deeds are considered, and our bad deeds are considered, and ultimately a life lived in obedience to Allah will make the difference. So the way of being saved is very different.
The trinity comes from paganism as well. The Bible is heavily misinterpreted by the modern church thanks to the Roman catholic church and their pagan infiltration through Constantine. That's historical fact. You can deny it all you want, but you're a fool for doing so.
Again, you guys are referring to a certain DENOMINATION of Islam, not the whole religion itself. Please, read more of the Qur'an before claiming to know what it's beliefs are. The trinity is blasphemy and is from paganism. In Isiah 45:5 God specifically says there is none besides Him and this is referring to pagan gods, the devil and it;s pointing out(prophesying) how the Messiah, Yehoshua, is God in the flesh. The Holy spirit is your soul, not a separate entity or force. The mother is in there from paganism and it's view of "Gaia".
If you didn't read my previous post about Messiah's name, then you're not listening at all. You're referring to a monotheistic God by a pagan god's name.
Salvation is obtained through a person being righteous and accepting God and that's the same across the board for the Abrahamic religions. Don't try and muddle that up with the corrupted versions of the Word of God that you're drawing on.
You guys are misinterpreting a lot of what the holy texts are trying to tell you, and you guys really need to do more research if you want to obtain Salvation. :l
The Trinity doesn't "come from" paganism, by the way. It comes from God's revelation. When God took on flesh and came in the person of Jesus Christ (the incarnation), his followers realised he was God, and worshipped him.
Coming to understand the theological implications of what that meant (that Christ was worshipped as God on earth, yet God was still worshipped in heaven, while there is only one God) was the basis of the doctrine of the Trinity.
The idea of splitting God into three "sections" comes from paganism. That's why the Roman Catholic church pushed it. They were teh pagans hiding as Christians and need their religion to appeal to pagans. They're also the ones who pushed calling Yehoshua "Jesus", a pagan god's name. You need to research the Word more. You're not getting the truth. :l
With all due respect, the doctrine of the Trinity does not split God into three sections.
The basic points are (and these are from the Bible):
1. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each fully God.
2. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit relate to each other as distinct persons.
3. There is only one God.
Also, in terms of the history of the doctrine, while terms may have been developed from pagan sources such as Greek philosophers to argue the doctrines, the basic foundation for the doctrine of the Trinity is in the fact of the incarnation of God, which is the main theme of the New Testament.
Which part of the Word would you say I'm not getting?
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit idea does split God into three sections. "Which part of the Word would you say I'm not getting?" That things like the Trinity are from paganism. God isn't three separate beings/concepts/aspects/whatever nomenclature you end up using. That is a pagan practice. :l
This:Each of the persons of the Trinity is fully and totally God without reservation. " contradicts this:"It's not three sections. God is indivisible. You can't section God." Someone has convinced you of false teachings. God isn't three different aspects. God is God. If you really believe God is indivisible you wouldn't make three "persons" for It.
No I wouldn't agree with you on that. The main theme of the NT is the Messiah's new covenant. You need to research the Word more. It's important in truly understanding the Word of God. :l