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Tf you mean wrongly?
Like genuinely, allowing minors to transition without parental consent, or AT LEAST to take hormone blockers is a life saver. I would have loved to stop my puberty the moment I realized I was trans, but I couldn't bc of my asshole parents.

there are life altering consequences that come with transitioning, even if it's mentally better for some people there are cases i've seen where people have thought they were trans and it's been a phase where they wouldn't be comfortable living as the opposite sex
people who transition also face reproductive issues later on and risk becoming sterile

My man, you can freeze gametes and detransitioners are like a 0.3% 💀💀💀
Also, like, I'd much rather live to regret transitioning than killing myself for being stuck in a body I hate, as I've tried thrice (Knife too dull, car stopped and chickened out at the last moment)

here's another thing, did you know that for every surgery doctors and pharmaceutical companies get money?

that ends up creates an incentive for them to encourage sex chance surgeries, and that causes big pharma to fund and encourage trans people to transition

if those people end up wanting to detransition, that's yet another surgery, and the medications those people buy as a result of complications give big pharma even more money. being transitioned as a child causes a much bigger chance of the person to want to detransition later in life.

and last but not last, freezing your gametes can actually cost tens of thousand dollars, giving the doctors and hospital even more money, so encouraging people to transition will give doctors even more profit.

Oh, and also, there is a difference between making people transition and letting them transition.

yeah, i know.

I know. I'm not talking about the surgeries. I'm talking about giving children hormone blockers so they can choose when they have experience and are older. The gamete thing I didn't really know tbh.
But I'm talking from my experience. That would have really saved my ass. Ik it's anecdotal evidence, but studies have concluded that affirmation is the best course of action for trans kids, and hormone blocker have almost no side effects at all.

"Hormone blockers have almost no side effects at all." Okay. Let's verify that by looking at Mayo Clinic's information page about puberty blockers (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075). It states that the effects of blockers are reversible. That page references the World Professional Association for Transgender Health Standards of Care 8, which says the same thing, that puberty blockers are reversible. (https://wpath.org/publications/soc8/) It doesn't cite any studies to support that claim, but it does cite previous Standards of Care publications 6 and 7. (Version 6 was published in 2001, while Version 7 was published in 2012). Regarding Version 7, on page 13 of 67, it describes

"Fully reversible interventions. These involve the use of GnRH analogues to suppress estrogen or testosterone production and consequently delay the physical changes of puberty." (https://web.archive.org/web/20180327142657/https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC%20v7/SOC%20V7_English.pdf)

That section cites a 2009 study (https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/94/9/3132/2596324) which states that even "prolonged pubertal suppression" is reversible. That study has a section called evidence, which states "In addition, the hormonal changes are fully reversible, enabling full pubertal development in the biological gender if appropriate." That 2009 study cites a 2008 paper, stating "In our view, these early hormonal interventions should not be considered as sex reassignment per se. Their effects are reversible." (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2008.00870.x)

Finally, that paper in turn cites a paper from 1998 (https://www.et-fine.com/10.1007/s007870050073), which is a single patient case study. That case regarded a female patient who later had a mastectomy (so the blockers didn't even work anyway?) and a hysterectomy. How the hell can that alone confirm that blockers are reversible for male patients, a completely different subject? Furthermore, the paper doesn't even mention that the effects are allegedly reversible.

Ok, first of all, then also they should be banned for cis kids who have a precocious puberty. Stopping trans kids from accessing them but not cis people is pretty f**ked up tbh.
I was going to look up articles to counter but my puter blocks'em all and the ones it doesn't charge money to read. But still, I have read macrostudies that concluded that during the intake, bone density anomalies might arise in around 10% of patients and of that 10%, a whole 98% had them fixed. Also, n'other study I remember (Ik it sounds like I'm bullshitting, srry, I should write down the stuff I read, Ik) concluded that at 14 most people have their gender pretty figured out if they let themselves explore it, with about 90% of the trans kids of that age ending up transitioning and not reversing anything.

1) I agree.
2) So that's ONE problem mostly solved. Bone density issues are a lot less significant than other issues that might be faced during a transition.
3) And that's kind of the problem, is that I've seen people on this site that I'm friends with multiple times who assumed that because they were somewhat feminine or masculine, they also had to be transgender. But when they gave it more thought and explored their identity more, they realized that they weren't actually. The healthcare system obviously can't tell if someone's explored their identity or not, so that's why the proposed age barrier for preventing people from being able to transition is 18, when someone becomes adult, because then that means that they're no longer a teenager, and they've almost certainly explored their gender by then.

MAYBE for teenagers under 18 who want to transition you could put in some sort of complex system where the person about to transition is thoroughly asked by a third-party therapist or doctor that doesn't profit from the surgery itself happening to see how much they've explored their gender identity, and thus be able to tell the difference between "I want to be a woman because I genuinely feel that way, and here's why" versus "I want to be a woman, because I just sexually like women and want boobs to touch".

First of all, I know people who've done like 0 gender exploration by like 50, so like LMAO
Secondly, if someone arrives to the conclusion they're trans, chances are they have explored their gender. One doesn't wake up and say "I'm trans". They think, they try it, and they may leave it like your friends did. Also, like I'm assuming you're cis... Just saw you're Iapetus, ok, Ik you're cis LMAO. Well, as someone who experiences both gender euphoria and "attraction" to women, they're different AF. Like genuinely, the feeling of burning desire of being horny is so different than the warm sensation of weightlessness whenever I'm called my name. Like also, something I don't have any studies to prove, but I have seen a whole lot of is that detransitioners tend to transition bc of dysphoria, not euphoria. And a dysphoria like feeling can come from like a trillion different things, from internalized homophobia to just feeling ugly. Euphoria is much more of a direct and visible correlation.

Because it's still a surgery, and surgery should always be avoided due to the risk involved. It's the same exact reason why in pregnancy, C-sections are never allowed to be done unless absolutely necessary.

Tbh, if someone is willing to risk it, I don't understand why not let them. Also, slight gish gallop.

"Like genuinely, the feeling of burning desire of being horny is so different than the warm sensation of weightlessness whenever I'm called my name."
My point with the "I want to be a woman, because I just sexually like women and want boobs to touch" part is that men who are only transgender because they're sexually attracted to women (these are called autogynephiles) should not qualify as actually being trans. I think it's offensive to both transgender people and cis women to do that.

AGL has been hard debunked, you know? Like it's part of an obsolete model that treated transness as a desire with external causes, dividing trans people into HSTS (I'm gay and I want to f**k people my same gender but they're all straight so trap time) and AGL (I like woman so I like woman me), which was said to be exclusive to women bc, as we all know, people with va**nas are never perverts/s. That has been debunked, transness comes from brain structure and hormone imbalances during gestation.
And also like... even if there were people willing to make such a huge change just for a fetish... why not let them? Like if it makes them happier, just let them. If, as you say, they transition bc they like viewing women, then there will be an even lesser chance of them raping or doing anything like that to women bc they'd fap to themselves, and if the case that they would, the decreased muscle mass due to E would make them easier to reduce.

HOW TF IS THAT A GISH GALLOP 😭

you ignored the first half of my answer. just did it again.

1) the gish gallop is a completely different thing than ignoring. that regards making multiple weak arguments, and whether I did that or not is a completely separate conversation.

2) for the comment referencing autogynephilia, you literally just said "it's been hard debunked" and it's an "obsolete model that divides people" without properly explaining even how it was or why. and the concept of transgender people arising from hormone imbalances only explain trans people that are actually trans. you don't need a hormone imbalance to immediately call yourself trans, and what i'm saying is that some actually cisgender autogynephiles do that.

3) for the comment referencing letting autogynephiles have surgery, using surgical resources just to affirm a sexual fetish wastes resources that the hospital might need for other more important things.

OH YEAH F**K, MB, mixed up the gish gallop and the reverse gish gallop. Sorry, mb.

If you don't cut my sentence in the middle, you'd see an explanation of the model. It's not used. And the hormonal imbalances that cause transness occur in utero, as the brain develops at a different moment than the rest of the body. I used the wrong word. Fluctuations.

And genuinely, I find it better to allow a few AGLs to transition than to deny healthcare to a trans person bc of the externally apparent overlap.

It's not a few. There is a significantly larger amount of MTF people than FTM people.

I've been cited studies saying both are more prevalent, but the MtF>FtM thing can be very easily explained. Good, old fashioned misogyny. If masculinity is perceived as the default, they can keep themselves in the closet way more easily. Also, it's easier to get diagnosed as a male as anything. People tend to assume women to exaggerate. Like I can say "my throat kind of hurts" and get really high doses of painkillers and my friend who lit has fainted at school from her periods can't get a prescription for more than 500g

You and your friend talked to different people regarding that. The example of you doing that sounds like the person who gave them to you doesn't understand how painkillers work. The medical professional who does know how painkillers work would be more inclined to give a lower dose.

Not everything can be explained only by misogyny.

My man, there are studies that conclude that women tend to be taken less seriously when experiencing pain. And we both got told that by medical professionals, both several different ones in the public sector.

Also, just because a model isn't used does not inherently mean that it is incorrect, or flawed.

It does mean that. An obsolete model is always obsolete because we have one better.

Tell me how the current hormone imbalance model you cited proves that autogynephiles don't exist.

Because AGL is not transness, and Idk if you have kinks or fetishes, but I have, and I wouldn't get surgery to get a snake tail and massively modify how I have to live just mc coiling around my gf would get me rlly horny.

based user

thanks

Me when the pick me acts in a pick me way:

look, dont talk about me and i wont talk about you.

I have no problem with you talking about me if I do something wrong. I will argue, but I'm ok with arguing. Genuinely, I have shut up about a whole lot of awful takes you've had (Tf you mean thinking parents hitting their children is a "white opinion" 💀💀💀), but the pick me shit is smth I gen can't shut up abt, bc you're not only shitting on yourself, you're also shitting on every other minor trans person, so kindly shut up.

...I just wanna switch my dick with a c**t...

that just sounds more like wanting more options in sex because you're a bottom than actually being trans (unless you're joking)

I'm being serious and ye basically what you just said....and also kinda cuz (I'm not the only one who thought this. so shut) Ive always wondered what a female orgasm feels like-

They are 10x stronger than a male one

Put smth up your ass. That's that

I mean I would but that hurts-

If you lubricate it it aint.