Suck it White Supremacists.

Huh. Wow. Did you make that?

Yeah, no okaying unless you're a liberal.

Oh wait, I'm SCUBA certified - does the 200 year history of the okay sign used in diving exempt me, even though I'm a conservative?

Yeah, a silly question/of course it doesn't.....because I'm a conservative.

Forgot to include the link... "Well I recommend going here..." https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture

I recommend not being gullible.

Okay, what about this link makes me gullible?

That you believe it in the presence of contradictory and nullifying information.

Dismissing the spread of the hand signal as a hoax overlooks two hard realities: first, that its increasing use gives open license to actual racist ideologues to operate and recruit under the cover of the “plausible deniability” established by less ideological young trolls; and second, that any kind of wink-and-nudge interaction with the racist right is a direct route to its normalization.

While the people who flash the sign can always readily claim innocence of any racist intent by attesting that they “only meant it ironically” and that their real purpose was to anger liberals, minorities and “social justice warriors (SJWs),” they can’t so readily escape ethical culpability for their role in the spread of hateful ideologies and their effects, including a global spike in hate crimes. Nor can they blame members of the minority groups who reasonably find such hand signals potentially threatening for being upset.

Its use and spread has been occurring since the introduction of the gesture in the 1800's

You'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't used that gesture. This is silly, and makes you look like fools. Next you'll decry breathing.

"....to perpetuate the troll and justify your willing and knowing participation in it.

You aren't helping anyone, you're pushing a false narrative because if you can make more people believe it - their voices telling you that it's true might drown out the external voices telling you that it's a lie.

You want justification, even if you have to manufacture it yourself."

All this tells me is that 4chan didn't think about the ramifications of their actions before doing it. Now, FBI, LEAs, and organizations like SPLC and ADL have other markers to track White Supremacists whether it was meant as a troll or not.

So, seems to me that 4chan kinda helped actually. As with racist humor, racists take such humor literally. Just like there are idiots who take this sign literally and act on it, using it for the definition the trolls wanted the left to believe it was used for.

They're professional trolls - they do this shit for fun so they can have a good laugh. This prank did nothing for conservatives, so I'm forced to believe the perpetrators were not conservatives.

What does "act on it" - your false interpretation is no different than someone using their middle finger. DID YOU DIE?

Of course you did, because you're so fragile that the external interpretation of someone else's hand gesture pokes at your feelz.

"https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/09/update-multipolar-spin-how-fascists-operationalize-left-wing-resentment"

Got it. I read it. Looks like they're reinforcing their credibility by owning their mistakes. Though, I'm not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.

"Because it's bullshit. You'll believe any excuse from a liberal using the gesture, because they're woke like you....but if it's a conservative, it's going to always be plausible deniability.

It's a shield you're using to protect yourself. A crutch to bolster you against valid arguments.

The gesture has been around for over 200 years. It didn't "spread" since 2017, the spread occurred a long LONG time ago. You want it to mean something so you can use it to attack your political adversaries."

A shield? A crutch? Hardly. It's an entirely valid argument that you can't refute. So, instead you attack the argument itself and call it a crutch. I acknowledged it's been around since 1800. However, as I said, the sign has been co-opted and its definition has shifted. This is not unique in history. This happens often. Only difference is this time it was done so intentionally. 4Chan started a fire, expected that it would be put it out, instead it's now out of their control and it is something that the FBI and other LEAs use as a flag or evidence of white supremacy. This is beyond my control and yours. There's nothing to be done about it except look at this as a learning experience for these people to be a little more careful in their trolling practices or stupid shit like this comes up. That's all there is to it.

I can refute it, the internet made you a joke with it. You don't want to see it, because then you might realize that you're the punchline.

The ADL acknowledges that it's a hoax, the SPLC acknowledges that it's a hoax, 4chan told you it was a hoax. The media doesn't want to admit it because it will be an admission that they're fools - which is why you don't want to admit it....well...that and you haven't been told to admit by your media idols.....and it's a convenient club with which to bash over your opponents heads.

The whole idea is pathetic. It's pathetic that you fell for it. It's pathetic that you insist on perpetuating the lie because you think it saves face. It's pathetic that you make every excuse to perpetuate the lie.

Pathetic

"https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/09/update-multipolar-spin-how-fascists-operationalize-left-wing-resentment"
Bad URL

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/09/update-multipolar-spin-how-fascists-operationalize-left-wing-resentment

"They're professional trolls - they do this shit for fun so they can have a good laugh. This prank did nothing for conservatives, so I'm forced to believe the perpetrators were not conservatives.

What does "act on it" - your false interpretation is no different than someone using their middle finger. DID YOU DIE?

Of course you did, because you're so fragile that the external interpretation of someone else's hand gesture pokes at your feelz."

Yeah. No. Not quite. It's interesting how you completely avoid the topic of plausible deniability and/or completely reject the notion in its entirety.

Because it's bullshit. You'll believe any excuse from a liberal using the gesture, because they're woke like you....but if it's a conservative, it's going to always be plausible deniability.

It's a shield you're using to protect yourself. A crutch to bolster you against valid arguments.

The gesture has been around for over 200 years. It didn't "spread" since 2017, the spread occurred a long LONG time ago. You want it to mean something so you can use it to attack your political adversaries.

"https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-lost-all-credibility/2018/06/21/22ab7d60-756d-11e8-9780-b1dd6a09b549_story.html"

K, wanna tell me who the author is? I can't view it: paywall.

Skeptical of the article as it's an opinion piece.

holy hell, you can't get past a simple paywall?? SPLC had to pay $3.375 million in damages and issue a public apology for......well, libel.

That's all WaPo publishes are opinion pieces.

"holy hell, you can't get past a simple paywall?? SPLC had to pay $3.375 million in damages and issue a public apology for......well, libel."

If I paid for every news company that offers subscriptions to read their articles... Yeah no, that starts to add up. Esp. for a guy who has a 4mo old and a 3yo. I can also find the same information (if it's fact based news) on other websites. I don't want to pay people for their opinions.

I don't pay for that crap. WaPo, NYT, La Times - they have shit developers who couldn't secure their ******** from the *** reading to them at **** ***** story hour.

*pinches nose bridge.*

Yes. It has been used since the 1800s.

It's almost as if you've never heard of "co-opting."

says the person who was trolled

"I can refute it, the internet made you a joke with it. You don't want to see it, because then you might realize that you're the punchline.

The ADL acknowledges that it's a hoax, the SPLC acknowledges that it's a hoax, 4chan told you it was a hoax. The media doesn't want to admit it because it will be an admission that they're fools - which is why you don't want to admit it....well...that and you haven't been told to admit by your media idols.....and it's a convenient club with which to bash over your opponents heads.

The whole idea is pathetic. It's pathetic that you fell for it. It's pathetic that you insist on perpetuating the lie because you think it saves face. It's pathetic that you make every excuse to perpetuate the lie.

Pathetic"

It's ironic that you're using the word pathetic as it relates to low-standard, especially since you're cherry picking what ADL/SPLC says. They acknowledge that the origins of the racial definition started as a hoax, but they also acknowledge that it has been co-opted to serve as a (and I quote) "wink-and-smile" suggestive gesture for those of the in-crowd (white supremacists.)

It's almost like you can't make your point without attacking credibility with ad hominem, or using cherry-picking to make your point here. Now that, if there was ever a time to use the word pathetic in this discussion, t hat would wholly be it right there.

"...Dees joined forces with another young Montgomery lawyer, Joe Levin. They took pro bono cases few others were willing to pursue – the outcome of which had far-reaching effects. Some of their early lawsuits resulted in the desegregation of recreational facilities, the reapportionment of the Alabama Legislature, the integration of the Alabama state trooper force and reforms in the state prison system.

The lawyers formally incorporated the SPLC in 1971, and civil rights activist Julian Bond was named the first president. Dees and Levin began seeking nationwide support for their work. People from across the country responded with generosity, establishing a sound financial base for the new organization.

In the decades since its founding, the SPLC shut down some of the nation’s most violent white supremacist groups by winning crushing, multimillion-dollar jury verdicts on behalf of their victims. It dismantled vestiges of Jim Crow, reformed juvenile justice practices, shattered barriers to equality for women, children, the LGBT community and the disabled, protected low-wage immigrant workers from exploitation, and more.

In the 1980s, the SPLC began monitoring white supremacist activity amid a resurgence of the Klan and today its Intelligence Project is internationally known for tracking and exposing a wide variety of hate and extremist organizations throughout the United States.

In the early 1990s, the SPLC launched its pioneering Teaching Tolerance program (now Learning for Justice) to provide educators with free, anti-bias classroom resources such as classroom documentaries and lesson plans. Today, it reaches millions of schoolchildren with award-winning materials that teach them to respect others and help educators create inclusive, equitable school environments.

As the country has grown increasingly diverse, our work has only become more vital. And our history is evidence of an unwavering resolve to promote and protect our nation’s most cherished ideals by standing up for those who have no other champions."

Doesnt seem laughable to me

Even wapo has a poor opinion of them

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-southern-poverty-law-center-has-lost-all-credibility/2018/06/21/22ab7d60-756d-11e8-9780-b1dd6a09b549_story.html

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/03/09/update-multipolar-spin-how-fascists-operationalize-left-wing-resentment

That's a retraction, by the way.

"You made a meme about it, but you could care less.......sure" Yeah, I made a meme about it to educate others who are taken in by the troll that the OK sign is innocuous by most people. The smaller demographic being trolls, the even smaller demographic being white supremacists. I don't care personally. I'm not whining about it, I'm helping others.

Fine line there.

....to perpetuate the troll and justify your willing and knowing participation in it.

You aren't helping anyone, you're pushing a false narrative because if you can make more people believe it - their voices telling you that it's true might drown out the external voices telling you that it's a lie.

You want justification, even if you have to manufacture it yourself.

Tu quo que fallacies won't work here. Like I said, I don't make the rules. I'm not at all trolled. I could honestly care less because as I've always said, it's a handsign. What makes it not-so-innocent is who is using it and for what purpose.

You made a meme about it, but you could care less.......sure

"....to perpetuate the troll and justify your willing and knowing participation in it.

You aren't helping anyone, you're pushing a false narrative because if you can make more people believe it - their voices telling you that it's true might drown out the external voices telling you that it's a lie.

You want justification, even if you have to manufacture it yourself."

What's true for you isn't globally true

As I've said in the original meme. Yes, it's okay to use the ok hand sign, under context. You've pointed out what is already known, that yes, it was originally created as a troll. But now, as cited by SPLC and ADL far-right white supremacist groups are using the sign anyway while maintaining plausible deniability.

So... Yeah... but no...

You're lost. What's worse is that you don't have any inclination to find your way back to sanity.

If anyone is using the gesture in a way not consistent with the 200+ year tradition, they're doing it specifically to make your head explode because it's funny.

Yea, I'm aware of their intention. However, people who hang with white supremacist groups cannot claim plausible deniability.

If someone's just doing it to troll me? Whatever, idgaf. Using it to sign you're alright? Cool man.

Patriot Prayer, Proud Boys, KKK, or III%ers using it? Yeah... nope. They could attempt to claims the aforementioned plausible deniability saying "I wuz juz tryin' 'ta troll ya." Any person with half a brain would give pause and think "Do I know that for real? Maybe you're owning the definition but just saying you're trolling." See, actions have consequences. You made the rules, we just played by them.. You wanna jokingly call it a white supremacist sign? Fine. We'll be on the look out for it.

And there you go - the only groups you apply it to are the ones that oppose your political ideology.

"And there you go - the only groups you apply it to are the ones that oppose your political ideology."

It seems you're deducing that these are the only groups... Allow me to clarify...

I _COULD_ go to the ADL/SPLC database for white supremacist groups and list them all, but that would be rather exhaustive. Do you need such a list? Is your mental capacity for comprehension so limited that you look at that statement and think "Hmm he must ONLY mean those three. He was obviously excluding all of the others."? Seriously? Those groups are referenced as well-known examples.

Seriously man. Your comments are getting pretty cringy. Instead of making accusations like that, you should ask for clarification first.

If logic makes you cringe, then the problem is you.

If individuals in those groups used the OK gesture prior to 2017, then you're 100% provably wrong. Since it wasn't racist until 2017 when you fell for the troll, a continuous use prior to that date invalidates any new meaning you've assumed for it.

The ADL and SPLC are laughable organizations. The SPLC is especially trash. They maintained a list of conservatives used by FB to censor posts. Simply being on the list meant your posts were censored. And the ADL, they don't exist unless they find racism. It's literally their lifeblood. The day they can't find something to call racist - is the day their CEO loses his $580,681 salary (that's his real salary)

*edit: those four. forgot I mentioned four.

"If logic makes you cringe, then the problem is you.

If individuals in those groups used the OK gesture prior to 2017, then you're 100% provably wrong. Since it wasn't racist until 2017 when you fell for the troll, a continuous use prior to that date invalidates any new meaning you've assumed for it.

The ADL and SPLC are laughable organizations. The SPLC is especially trash. They maintained a list of conservatives used by FB to censor posts. Simply being on the list meant your posts were censored. And the ADL, they don't exist unless they find racism. It's literally their lifeblood. The day they can't find something to call racist - is the day their CEO loses his $580,681 salary (that's his real salary)"

Yeah, no. Given that our courts, our branches of government recognize these organizations as legitimate, they are fielded by doctors of their specialties in psychology, law, etc. I trust those who are accredited rather than some random anonymous flipper with an ax to grind.

especially interesting if you call them trash when you cited it earlier.

Your "logic" is also flawed with the argument of "Well, if they used it before 2017..." Your argument assumes that definitions don't change; they do.

Well, I recommend going here. SCUBA diving is ok in my book. Some more of my strict buddies here would say use thumbs up. But, as the meme refences the Anti-Defamation League (pretty much the authority over hate groups and their categorization) they suggest that it is context based.

Simply gotta ask, "Why's this sign being used?"

Thumbs up has a different meaning than the okay sign. They aren't interchangeable.

What about the ASL speakers? International dive signs have roots in ASL - are the conservative deaf racisits too because of your gullibility?

Like I've said before, I'm fine with it depending on the context in which its used.

bot anymore.. unless you are a torch carrying nazi

Read the link I posted