Love to hear your comments. (BTW this meme template is excellent for this stream.)

I think it stems from the idea that Jesus stands at the door and knocks, that whoever lets Him in will dine with Him, which is taken as an analogy of Salvation. That is to say, it's a poetic image of Jesus taking up rightful residency in one's heart. What could the door be except the door to the heart? I certainly can't think of another viable answer.

The problem is, that analogy is not biblical and it paints Jesus as a passive and weak savior, when the scripture says that God is powerful to save and scripture says that God choose who to redeem.

Actually, it's right in Revelation. Yes, it never mentions the heart directly, but that is obviously what the analogy is pointing to.

Whether one could say one could call Jesus a gentle person or not depends on whether you're His friend or enemy. To His followers, He is a gentle and loving protector. To His enemies, He is a fierce and unrelenting warrior.

The problem is, Scripture also states that God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to Him in repentance. However, we see that not all do. Thus, humans have a say in the matter, even if it goes against what God desires. While God IS powerful to save, He cannot violate human will. Otherwise, it isn't Love. He knows our choices from beginning to end, and guides our footsteps the entire way, but it's ultimately up to us to take that leap of Faith.

The passage is revelation is directed to believers in a church, not unbelievers.

And God doesn’t ask to save someone; He just saves by His own power in grace. He gives a person a new heart and His spirit.

From our point of view, man choices to repent and believe, but ultimately God is the one who chooses. If someone comes to Christ, it’s because God specifically called him. (John 6:44)

I’d also like to mention that God’s hand of salvation is never thwarted, because of what Jesus said in John 6:37-40

Can Jesus fail in what He was sent for? Surely not.

Why would He need to knock at the doors of those already sealed by His Spirit?

Of course He doesn't ask. They ask Him to save them.

Then why doesn't He call everyone? Why would He create a human on a crash course to hell from the very beginning, with no way out of it?

Let's bring this down to a more human level. Suppose you have a wife and children. How would you show love to them? Would you force them to do only what you want them to do? Or would you let them have the choice to love you or reject you?

We shouldn’t bring it to a human level. We need to see what God says in His word. God has absolute freedom to demonstrate His mercy to anyone. He is under no obligation to save anyone, yet He still does.

Another aspect that we can’t tend to dislike is that God also has the freedom to judge anyone. If you read Romans 9, you see that God can harden some and save others.

From our human perspective, we’re in control, but from the perspective of God, He receives glory from demonstrating His condemnation of sin, and from showing His mercy.

Sorry, bad spelling: *Another aspect that we tend to dislike..*

But it's exactly that way with Christ and the Church. A relationship takes two sides, and neither can be forced.

Let me ask you: why would Christ die for all the sins of humanity if some of them are predestined to go to hell anyways? If there is nothing that can be done for them, why would they be atoned for?

Yes, God, as the arbitrator of Truth and Justice, has all authority to judge. But a Judge condemns a person for their actions made by their own free will, not because that's how he decided it would play out.

All history has been the struggle between God calling us home and us resisting that call. Clearly, as is demonstrated in the book of Hosea, we can run away from God's call to us. It would, of course, be absolutely ludicrous to do so, but it's entirely possible. Thus, again, humans have a choice to return to Our Father in Heaven, or to fight Him.

Friend, this isn’t a human-like relationship, this is a submission, a confessing that Jesus is Lord.

And God’s plan can never be thwarted. (Psalm 33) From our perspective, when we go against His commandments, it seems like that, but what did Joseph say when his brothers came to him? “You meant IT for evil, but God meant IT for good..” (Gen. 50:20) God ordained the sin of Joseph’s brothers to happen, but He did it with righteous intentions.

We want to do as according to our nature, but God orchestrates history according to His nature, so that His character is displayed for His glory. As Romans 9:17-24 says, God can ordain someone for destruction, and another for mercy.

It’s hard to understand, but God is still sovereign, yet we still are held accountable.

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." - Romans 9:14-15

Even a relationship between a King and his subjects requires cooperation between both of them, despite it being a superior-subordinate relationship.

Of course it can't. No power of hell or scheme of man can thwart it. God, being all knowing and sovereign over all things, cannot be stopped or delayed. We know that God works all things for the good of those who love Him. The thing is, God, being an utterly good and holy Being, cannot orchestrate evil, even to work it for good. But He knows it before it happens, and He works it in the fabric of history to make the best outcome.

Of course. He is the arbitrator of Truth and Justice, making Him the ultimate Judge. And it all depends on one thing: whether the one being judged accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior.

That means we have some say in the matter. One is not held responsible for an act they were forced to commit.

Again, it pivots on a cooperation between God's sovereignty and human choices. While He sees what choices we make before we make them, we still make those choices, independent of, though often influenced by, physical and spiritual factors. Sins aren't commited in defiance of God's ultimate plan, but it is in defiance of what He desires for us.

I recognize the apparent lack of Scripture in my replies, and my apologies for that. I'll try to amend that here: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:8-10, NIV)." This verse demonstrates that God desires that all come to Him in repentance. However, this means that either salvation is universal (which we know it's not), or humans have the ability to chose their master. Otherwise, He is not the loving Father He has said He is (but we know God doesn't lie).

You’re very kind, but you’re reasoning against scripture. Thank you for mentioning that verse from 2 Peter. But don’t you see who it’s directed towards? “Patient with you, not wanting that any should parish..”

And humans are naturally born sinners, right? David even says that at conception there was sin. And all who sin are a slave to sin. 1 John puts it in even stronger language by saying that if you’re not a son of God, then you’re a son of the devil.

My point is, we can’t chose our master. If we chose Jesus, it’s because by God’s grace alone, He has drawn us.

I’ve enjoyed this chill conversation. Thanks for being so level-headed and kind

Sorry I took so long to reply. I've been taking Driver's Education recently, so I don't have a ton of time on my hands.

To be fair, saying that humans are incapable of making their own choices goes against Scripture as well. God repeatedly throughout the Bible gives His people the choice to serve Him, or go their own ways. Also, since we are made in Imago Dei, that means we take on all of His characteristics, albeit in a much lesser form. Among those qualities is the ability to make independent choices that correspond with independent thought.

I'm not sure how the identity of the addressee changes the meaning of, "not willing that ANYONE should perish (emphasis added)." Could you expound on that?

Well, yes, we are born in the sin condition. There is no denying that. But we can choose to allow ourselves to be saved, just as much as a drowning man can choose to grab onto a lifeline. It's idiocy not to, but that choice is still there.

I think the whole point of Jesus saying, about Himself and mammon, that no man may serve two masters was that He was saying, "You cannot have both Me and the enemy as your master. You must choose between us." So, really, we do have a choice whom to serve. We just can't have our cake, and eat it too.

You're welcome. I try to be someone that I would enjoy having this kind of discussion with. You have proved yourself a most courteous opponent in debate as well.

Yes! That phrase totally undermines the Holy Spirit, in my opinion. It's baptism with the Holy Spirit, not Jesus.

Agreed!