Face You Make Robert Downey Jr

My thoughts exactly.
I'll be posting this on their memes that say "think of the children!"

The ultimate hypocrissy. My ears go deaf to them when they want to get on their soap box and scream bloody murder over this.

"My god"?? If GOD doesn't exist then this didn't really happen, did it?? GOD can't murder because He created life and it is only he has the right to remove it. Neither you nor I are the authors of life and thus the term "murder" as well as the punishment. The even larger problem you have is that because it seems that you don't believe in God so what's your objective standard for calling anything evil or bad?? If atheism is true then you sure aren't talking like it because if it were then nothing would be objectively WRONG. But, here you are calling God wrong. That's simply your opinion. For anything to evil then God has to exist.

Thanks. Women aren’t creating life and women are created themselves.

What's my objective standard for calling anything evil or bad? Simply put, human well-being. You could also say "flourishing". Things which harm a person are generally bad, and things which help them are generally good.

I am afraid that you have misunderstood the nature of the question and have failed to answer it. Once you use the term “My objective standard”, it’s not objective – it’s subjective. In other words, it’s your opinion. Without any context to your term “flourishing”, it is really saying nothing. Why is harming people bad? Who are you to make that judgement? If God doesn’t exist then a person who wants to harm people has an opinion which is just as valid as yours. So, you have failed to establish an objective standard because atheism cannot. There is no evil or good if atheism is true. BTW – Abortion harms a person.

“I'm curious: if you say you get your sense of right and wrong from god, does that mean you agree with the rules he handed down in the Bible? Should we live by those rules today? Can we own slaves, like the ancient Israelites were allowed to? Can we kill rebellious children and witches and gays and adulterers?”

Great questions. I agree with the “rules” which are meant for people today. There are many which are meant specifically for the Israelites –Civil. Some are Ceremonial – specifically for Israelites. Some are UNIVERSAL – for all of mankind. Keep these in mind the next time you read it and it will emerge clearer as to which is which. Indentured servitude was part of those times and it had strict limitations. Slavery as a rule is always views as a negative in scripture and is roundly condemned in 1 Timothy 1:10.

Your last statement is easy. Who has the authority to claim anything as right or wrong if God does not exist? You sure don’t. For the atheist, there is no objective by which you are able to establish morality and therefore nothing is right or wrong –just our opinions. If you say that anything is write or wrong then by your own mouth, you are admitting to God.

Unlike slavery in America, there were guidelines around slavery and in that culture there were ENDENTURED SLAVES. Furthermore there is a difference between the Bible DESCRIBING events and PRESCRIBING or telling people what they SHOULD do. Please go back and read it with this is mind and a different picture will emerge.

It is also self -defeating for you to claim that society determines what’s right or wrong and then complain about a society in Biblical times having slavery. Which is it? You cannot have it both ways. If society determines what is right or wrong then society could determine that slavery or killing Jewish people is morally acceptable. So, again there is no objective standard and the key word here is STANDARD. If it changes from society to society then you have no standard.

In chess or any other game, the rules are objective standards by which to play the game. If the rules changed on a whim then no one would know how to play. So, you might want to rethink this.

Is being right or wrong simply one’s opinion against another’s opinion? For something to truly be right then it is right regardless of opinion. It is what is known as “mind independent”. 2+2=4 is an objective truth. It is beyond our opinions and it is an unchanging standard. The same principle applies to morality. When you call something evil or wrong, you are appealing to an objective standard which has not been met. If you aren’t then it it’s simply your opinion that something is evil against the opinion of someone else that it’s not. So, you are unwittingly appealing to a source outside of mankind. A higher authority.

When you say that you have not heard God tell you what is moral, there is no need to. The Bible states that the moral law is written on our hearts. We know. How? By our reactions when someone does something wrong to us. You might not know it’s wrong to steal from someone else but you know that it is wrong when someone steals something from you! But, just in case you miss it then they are written about in the Bible.

Without getting too long on this, the God of the Bible is the prime suspect for being the Creator of the universe and everything in it. He fits the bill as described in scripture – morally perfect and the ground of all reality – timeless – immaterial – all powerful – timeless/eternal – the source of all that is good.

Good point

From my friend thefundamentalfundie...

When the ones allowing the children to be murdered have enshrined that wickedness into law and fight vehemently to keep it enshrined to the point they won't even vote 'yes' on a law that would protect the lives of babies who survived an attempted murder, who can I call?

This is what they are literally doing. Do you think that is OK?

Before you go off on some "NO U!" tagant about a "homicidal, baby killing god" what if I didn't even believe that? Can you defend politicians that wouldn't even vote to protect babies that survive an attempted abortion?
Or will you stoop to a "NO U" argument?

You have a great point about your terms - (Murder/illegal) which is why I don't use them in these conversations in order to be accurate. But as far some of the other things you mentioned, you seem to be purposely distorting. While the DNC doesn't sacrafice newborns, the do seem to adhere to abortion as a religion. Also, there is no significant difference between killing the unborn and a new born which would justify killing one but not the other. There, size, level of development, environment and dependency non of which doesn't make any of us more or less human. Killing another human being without proper justification is evil, like rape or theft. So, we do not oppose it because "we don't like it" - we oppose it because, like slavery, rape and theft - it's evil to kill innocent human beings because they are inconvenient. Most of us would take issue with someone who said "I don't like rape" as if it is a personal peference. It is to reduce it to the kind of car brand one likes or to your favorite color. Abortion is the taking of a human being's life.

2cn314.jpg [image not found] like this logic?