One Does Not Simply

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That's a great meme comment dude! X{D

RS I think you're missing the point of this stream.

It's all about bashing the Disney Fan Fictions like TFA and RO.

And Leia was never bashed, neither was Padme. At least not in any discussions I've had with fans. Same with every other badass female in SW.

Just these two latest ones.

Rey and Jyn are bashed because of the mary sue agenda. Like How I was saying that Disney is taking a boy's property, Star Wars, and turning it into a girl's property.

They should have tried to make it for both genders, but they're going down the Pink path for sure.

(I forgot Hera, Sabine, and the seventh sister in my meme comment):{

I just don't see the "agenda". Rey knew how to fix shit and ended up being able to use the force.

Socrates is saying there isn't a reason behind her abilities and that's just not true. She understood spaceship tech because she had been scavenging for years. Just because she knew how a couple things on the Falcon doesn't mean they were saying she knew more than Han. And it was Finn's idea to "unfix" the gas. Spaceships had been around for thousands of years and aren't a big deal in SW. It's not like some random person on Earth being able to fix something that Nasa made.

And her force powers are due to her being trained AND being the grandaughter of Anakin. Her memory and abilities started coming back when Kylo used the force on her. Not to mention this is really the first time in the movies time period that the dark side isn't stronger than the light side which also explains her ability to defeat Kylo.

And RO hasn't come out yet so we don't know what Jyn can or can't do.

I just don't feel like Socrates (being a casual fan) really understands.

Well I think it's sad that they've roped you in with poor story telling and character development dude.

Socrates is pointing out the thing that Luke had to be seen training to do the things he did. And that force persuasion isn't something Rey should be able to do that easily.

I feel that Socrates and the people on our side are pointing out legitimate flaws with TFA and RO and you and the Disney fans are just settling to have a SW experience.

Rey flying the Falcon like she did is not explainable through the fact that the technology exists. Airplanes exist in the modern world, but NO ONE, no matter how much flight sim training, is going to be able to hop in one and fly it as well as Rey. That's the truth dude.

Even if they're banking on the Anakin lineage explaining her skills, Anakin relied on AUTOPILOT just to get into space in an even SIMPLER starfighter. Plus, he had R2.

Rey wasn't trained but for a few years at most AS A CHILD. She's stagnated on a planet for a decade. Her force powers are CLEARLY overpowered.

And we don't know yet if her memories came back to her after Kylo. That's reading into it too much. That's probably going to be their lame explanation though.

"Not to mention this is really the first time in the movies time period that the dark side isn't stronger than the light side which also explains her ability to defeat Kylo."

Wrong dude. There's only Luke and presumably Leia on the light side. Snoke, the knights of Ren, and Kylo outnumber the light side users. That's a lame attempt to justify poor storytelling and character development.

She only defeats Kylo because the company making the film wants to have girls outdo boys. It also ties into the push for women in combat.

They may sued the shit out of Rey and Jyn. I wish you could see them for what they are.

We're able to judge a film on the trailer because we've seen enough films to predict like this. That's how we KNOW that Jyn is overpowered.

And there is no such thing as a "casual fan". That's an oxymoron. A fan is a fanatic. You cannot be casually fanatical about anything.

Socrates is like me, a fan of the OT and PT, and sees Disney's fan fics as the garbage they are.

But RS, this stream is all about bashing Disney for ruining SW. I want to keep it that way. We're not trying to gang up on you or push you away. So I hope that none of this comes across as bashing you bruh. :{

Also, Anakin ended up destroying the Trade Federation control ship with autopilot off so I don't really see the comparison.

??? I was pointing out that Anakin didn't just hop in an unfamiliar ship and fly it from the git like Rey in the Falcon.

Autopilot wasn't taken off of the N-1 till he was in orbit.

Rey never needed any help. She just KNEW how to fly the ship after less than a minute of flying it. That's ridiculous.

And I already pointed out, Anakin had previous REAL experience with piloting podracers. Rey only has flight sim xp from what they've mentioned so far. But I'm sure they'll add in to fix this plot-hole that she used to fly an airspeeder much like Luke did with his T-16.

Flying a starship/starfighter in space with no xp is also going to be easier than in atmosphere. She even dragged the ship around a corner like a skateboarder. I mean, come on.

You could be giving her a break because she's a girl. And a girl you find attractive. So, I can't blame you for defending Disney's lack of foresight.

And again, I hope this doesn't make you mad at me or Socrates. I hope we're still cool despite this disagreement. :{

From what I've seen, Socrates doesn't like the PT or didn't care for it when it came out. "Casual fan" may be an oxymoron, but you know what I meant.

I don't see how I'm wrong about the force in TFA. Anakin brought back the balance. The amount of force users on each side doesn't mean anything. The dark side was stronger when there were 2 Sith and thousands of Jedi.

Anakin was a little kid when he used autopilot. Rey like I said had been scavenging parts for years and learning the tech.

If they do end up making Luke a washed up scumbag, then I'll change my stance. But I just don't see the "anti-men" agenda. Even if KK or Disney was really pushing that agenda, it would be bad business to ruin Luke's character. EVERYONE loves Luke. I don't think they would risk alienating any fans by doing that. I have faith that Luke will be the powerful Jedi master we expect, with a legit reason for going into exile.

Socrates will have to say, but I'm sure he's mentioned that the PT is times better than Disney's fan fics.

And sorry, but I don't get the meaning of "casual fan". You can't be a casual fan of something. So saying that Socrates is one, doesn't make sense. That's why I pointed out the error.

You must mean he's a casual viewer or casual reader of Star Wars. But I see him as much a fan of the OT/PT as I am. He can clarify that though.

From Disney's perspective so far, there is no balance and prophecy. They've already changed the franchise too. So it's not logical to compare their new fan fic's continuity to the real Star Wars canon. They aren't beholden to the canon and think they've made a new one.

And you're assuming that during Palpatine's reign that there was only Him and Vader. The Inquisitors aren't "sith" but are still dark side force users that give the dark side more power over the light. And with Ahsoka and others being in the middle, they're negated.

There also NEVER was a time that there was only 2 dark siders in the whole timeline of Star Wars. So you can see your view on this isn't as accurate as it should be.

You're saying that Palpatine and Maul/Dooku/Vader were the only two dark siders opposed to the entire Jedi Order. BUT, you're leaving out tons of dark siders like the Nightsisters and others.

You don't learn how to pilot a ship by scavenging though. Anakin had flown podracers before. Which took skills AND his latent force sensitivity.

Rey, however, uses flight sim XP and scavenging? Not buyin' it dude. That's lame story telling skills on Disney's part. They just wanted to have a girl outdo all the boys. They even talk about the new films as a way to give women a chance in SW as if they didn't already exist.

And they already have made Luke a washed up scumbag.

Luke in the OT wouldn't have run off like that. Maybe in ANH, BEFORE joining Obi Wan, but nowhere after that would he have just up and left. He helped Leia hunt down Han and rescue him. That's the kind of character development that Disney scrapped to make the men in Star Wars look like f**k ups.

Han has a failed marriage for instance, and at 70 years old in universe, is trying to be a smuggler still. Really Disney? Really? SMH.

"I don't think they would risk alienating any fans by doing that."

BUT they already did that by disregarding the EU. THEN by reincorporating EU characters and amalgams of characters.

They alienated and divided the fan base already. :{(

I know there were other darksiders, but the point is that they and the 2 Sith were still outnumbered by the Jedi, and the dark side was still stronger. But the amount of users on each side is irrelevant to which side the force is stronger.

Socrates may feel that way NOW, but I don't think he liked the PT when it came out. I've seen him say something along the lines of "I'll go back and give the PT another look", implying that he didn't care for them originally which was my point. He'll have to clarify though. And I don't consider people who didn't like the PT to be real fans. That's why I called him a casual fan. Yes, technically fan means fanatic which is the max degree. But fan is just a way of saying you like something and there are different degrees of fandom for anything. Baseball for instance, a "casual fan" may only watch a few games, while a "hardcore fan" watches every game. But you could sub "fan" out with whatever if you want to get technical.

See you're saying that numbers don't matter, but then say that only 2 sith were the reason the dark side was stronger. That's incorrect.

The dark side had way more than just Palpatine and his apprentice at the time.

Same with the Light side. There would be light side users that aren't Jedi just as the Nightsisters are dark siders but not sith.

They ALL play into that balance. And yes, the numbers mattered.

The only reason the dark side was stronger at that point in time was the strength of Palpatine. Then when he gets Anakin on his side, it becomes unbalanced. Anakin killing Palp balances it.

If you take the lines of dialogue in the films as literal, you're going to have a confusing time.

But the amount of force users on either side DOES matter in the balance aspect.

If Socrates didn't like the PT at first but liked it after seeing TFA, that just proves our points. That Disney is ruining the franchise and the mary sue stuff is full of plot-holes compared to Lucas's masterpiece.

"And I don't consider people who didn't like the PT to be real fans."

I don't either, but the same goes for those that accept Disney's fan fics. They aren't fans. They're sci fi fans or film fans, but not SW fans.

And again, Socrates likes the PT, but may have things he didn't like about it. I have conversations with him about the lucas and prequel bashing being a hipster thing too.

"That's why I called him a casual fan. Yes, technically fan means fanatic which is the max degree. But fan is just a way of saying you like something and there are different degrees of fandom for anything."

Okay you keep trying to sell me on this concept of a "casual fan" but I keep telling you there is no such thing.

English is more rigid than modern people want to accept. Yes, words evolve, but the word fanatic is rigid.

Fan is just a shortened version of fanatic. Not a new separate word. So casual fan is an oxymoron that is only used to create division amongst fans and casual VIEWERS. There is a difference.

There are no degrees of fandom, only degrees of interest. But the use of the word fan for anyone who isn't fanatical about something is erroneous.

I feel like the discussion is going all over the place now.

Your meme is saying that badass female SW characters always get bashed.

Me and Socrates are pointing out why Rey and Jyn are being bashed. And I pointed out that the meme is in error since no one I have ever talked to has bashed all the other badass females. :{

Well to be fair, I never said WHY the dark side was stronger, I only said that the amount of users on each side was irrelevant to which side of the force is stronger. Obviously there are more users on each side that the ones we know about. And grey users. But the dark side was already stronger before Anakin joined.

Like I said, if you want to sub "fan" out with "supporter" or whatever then fine. My point was only that Socrates is more casual about SW than we are

Yoda says that the path is faster/easier to the dark side. But where are you getting that they said that the dark side is stronger?

Luke asked Yoda is the ds stronger and Yoda says no. But I do know not to take that literally. It still stands that the ds isn't stronger or weaker, it's just easier.

And if the ds was stronger at that point, it's only because of Palpatine's "level". Like in RPG's.

Well, so what if Socrates has less interest? What's that a point to/for?

We were discussing the problems with Disney's fan fics, mainly the mary sue-ness of it's female leads. Not Socrates' level of interest in SW.

His points about the Disney stuff are valid either way.

Disney is trying to remake the entire franchise into what they want it to be. That's obvious.

And they suck at doing it. And for doing it.

If you don't like the way we're tearing into TFA and RO, it's cool. I'll still be cool with you if you like them too. I don't want to make an enemy out of you over this.

I just want this stream to be about Disney f**king up my favorite franchise. :{

Well, I know there's plently of reasons to bash Disney, and believe me I'm all for it. We'll just have to agree to disagree about Rey/Jyn and the "anti-men" agenda. I mean yeah, it is two consecutive films with a female lead, but they are making a young Han film and a Boba Fett film so I don't see the agenda of trying to make SW a girl's property just because there's a couple strong female leads now. I respect your opinions as a real fan though.

Thanks bro. We're just not going to see eye to eye on this. Yet. You could always be converted after RO and 8-9.

We'll keep the fire going for you dude. :{D

I'm not sure why you're going into what Yoda said. I don't think you're seeing what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying a dark side user is more powerful than a light side user or that the dark side is in essense stronger than the light. I'm only saying that the force was out of balance and the dark side of the force had gained the upperhand over the light in a metaphysical way so to speak. Think of the force like a see-saw, tilted towards the dark. The beginning of Darth Plagueis goes into it a little. I remember George saying it in the original dvds, that it was because of this imbalance that the Jedi couldn't sense Palpatine, were weaker etc, and why they fell ultimately.

The point about Socrates was that I don't think he got that Rey's ability to use the force or that her understanding of spaceship tech wasn't arbitrary. This meme was a response to his meme about Rey and Jyn being good for no reason which just isn't true.

I'm not saying that the Sith/DS didn't have an upperhand during the Clone Wars though.

I was pointing out what yoda said because the way you worded your comments saying the DS is stronger.

The force WAS out of balance, yes, but that didn't mean that the DS is/was stronger. It just meant that Palp was blurring the Jedi's focus. Spreading them out thin.

I don't see the see-saw analogy though. I see it more as a certain DS user was manipulating actual events.

I don't think Lucas said they were weaker, but I know generally what you're referring to. But you're taking that clip a little too literally. It should be taken seriously cause Lucas said it, but he sometimes contradicted himself having to keep up with an entire universe of info.

A neat thing to think about is how the force works in other galaxies.

The Force is all pervading and presumably existing throughout the Universe. The events in this one galaxy aren't the only things affecting it.

I think Socrates is able to decipher his opinions on the films better than you give him credit.

Rey's force skills would be low even being Anakin's granddaughter. Luke was his son and had to work at using the force. It isn't something you can just do on a whim like she does.

She was barely trained. They made it too unbelievable for me and Socrates.

And I'm sorry, but from what they showed in the film, her abilities are arbitrary. They only did that to make her liked by a female audience. She's overpowered like Superman.

And his meme is accurate dude. I know you like these films and the actors, but this meme stream is meant for bashing Disney and pointing out their falws, which Socrates did perfectly.

Disney is making their female leads overpowered and too perfect. Just because you don't choose to see it doesn't mean Socrates and me aren't right.

We're also pointing out a HW trend. HW DOES make female leads like this. Have you seen the RE Milla films?

And it's cool that you don't see things the way we are, but you need to accept that we are seeing this.

I want this meme stream to be about bashing Disney and their fan fics. Not attempts at defending them.

And I hope you understand that I'm not fighting you, I'm fighting Disney.

Side note: did you see my BLB meme that's doing well? lol I couldn't believe it. :{

No problem. And if Socrates likes the prequels now, that's great. I just get irritated by people who don't like them. Like they should have a commenting on Star Wars rep like on here: "Please improve your reputation with real SW fans to discuss Star Wars". Lol

Years and years of defending the prequels against morons who bashed them has left me kinda bitter.

lol I don't know if I'd go that far.

If you ever watch Spaced, the way Simon Pegg reacts to TPM is how I feel about TFA and Disney.

I hate the PT and Lucas bashing too. Some people can't handle Lucas. :{D

Since it's come up about whether or not I'm a fan of OT/PT, here's (roughly) my current position:

I love the OT. I think they're some of the best movies ever made, and not only that, but they say something important about human existence.

I didn't think the PT was as amazing, or on the same level of great, transcendent movie-making as the OT was. I thought Phantom Menace was the best of the three, and AOTC was pretty decent. I didn't enjoy ROTS. However, I have respect for George Lucas and what he was trying to do. I definitely don't think they deserve the bad rep they seem to have on the internet, and I respect people who defend them.

So basically I'm a fan of the OT primarily. I'm not a fan in the same sense of the PT. I see good things about them but they don't captivate me. I definitely don't hate them like Episode 7 though.

But I definitely don't know as much about Star Wars as you guys do. I like reading your comments to each other, because you guys get into the world and know much more about the characters and the backstories.

That was nicely put. :{

This is my triggered face

And this is my triggered face :)

lol Warning! X{P