Captain Picard Facepalm

First part is correct. According to our laws, if that interests you.

Where does that say that in our laws?

duh. If the law considered it a human being abortion wouldn't be legal. get a clue

Change them?

And just look where we are now!

BOOM!!!!!

The illegal got a whole TWO years in prison: https://youtu.be/a3V5KXG4gWQ

That's a mendacious argument considering the left immediately went on the attack and turned it into a media circus by lying and trying to blame the immigration people for her death, when even her father says it wasn't their fault, that they did everything humanly possible.

The father signed forms indicating they didn't need any medical treatment, but she had a freaking fever of 105.7F by the time she got there. It's amazing she even survived all the way to the border, given the dehydration and starvation she endured getting there.

But no, the left showed SO MUCH empathy in immediately trying to turn her death into a weapon against the right, didn't they?

Yep, it's absolutely HIS fault that her father dragged her through a desert with no food or water.

Which side of the border is he on vs. where the kid was?

The only thing that matters is that abortion is a legal medical procedure.
What have you done to change this injustice you deem murder besides meme about it?

Compulsory sterilization laws use to be legal too.
I never said it was murder. Another strawman. But it is strange how if someone kills a pregnant woman, they get two charges of murder.

Maybe because that woman that was pregnant wasn't aborting and wanted that child?

But but b muh clump of cells!!!!

but but but the law!!!
if you are so upset about it do something besides meme about it

Use law to justify argument. Doesn't own a ni**er

I think what he not articulating very well is that if it's not a human life if the mother wants to abortion, then it should still not be a human life if the mother is murdered, hence the double murder charge is not justified (if the fetus is not a human life). The law is inconsistent on this point. And really, whether or not the fetus is a human life is what the abortion arguement (both legal and moral) should hinge on.

If the mother chooses to terminate, it's not a person?
But if the mother chooses not to, but it is killed by someone else, it is a person.
That mean the mother gets to arbitrarily decide whether or not it's a person.
My point is, the law is inconsistent.

To me humanity and personhood means the same thing. But even if we go with personhood for semantics, whether or not the fetus is a person should not be arbitrarily decided by the mother. Either it's protected from murder (even by the mother), or it's not. Either position (that it is a person protected from murder, or that it isn't) can be defended, but it is illogical for both to be simultaneously true.

"I'm not saying that personhood should be determined by the mother"
"A person who kills a pregnant woman is charged with two murders because the mother didn't make the choice to terminate the pregnancy; the killer did."
That's exactly what you said.

I never said that was his argument, altho I seem to remember dg arguing that point to me, but I may be wrong. It was referring to the typical leftist talking point. Or are you ignorant of that pro death tactic?

lol old times.

Isn’t ‘life’ great?

It's pro choice not pro abortion, as in it's a woman's choice as to what she does with her body and none of your f**kin business. I don't give a f**k what you do to your body, why should you give a f**k what someone you will never know what the f**k
They do with their body.

A baby in the womb isn't HER body. And pro death is a more accurate description. Amazing that you're more triggered over people that don't like millions of babies aborted rather than at people too stupid to use protection.

*poof*

that was civil discussion looking for another thread

hahahaha.
Can I borrow your kidney and lung I mean you got 2 of each and only need 1 of each.

"Since when is someone obligated to use their body to keep someone else alive?" Never! But that's what humans do. It's called compassion. You wouldn't understand because your a robot

My parents told me they would sacrifice anything for me & that made me feel good.If you never heard that your entire life than I see why your so cold hearted

Beep boop beep bop buzzz whir whizzz beep boop bop beep booooooooooooop

Sorry I don't speak Spanish

The fetus has absolutely zero choice or culpability in the matter. It was literally brought into existence by the mother, and apparently very irresponsibly if she wants to abort it. Because the mother brought this upon herself and the fetus is utterly helpless and not responsible for its predicament, any possible analogy you can think of about
people stealing from each other doesn't even come close to being fair or accurate.

It's the mother's fault that there is a fetus dependent on her living inside her. Therefore she has no valid argument when she claims it is living off her against her will. That's literally like jumping off a cliff and then complaining that the ground is going to crush you against your will. These mothers have no self control, foresight, and take no responsibility.

You can't give the baby rights without taking away from the mother. Pregnancies happen in different circumstances, and it takes two to "tango". If she's left alone holding the perverbial "bag", she has the right to choose, like it or not, not your decission. It's a very private and personal matter that does not involve us. None of our business, find something else to keep you awake at night.

The mother forfeits some of her rights the instant she creates involuntary life. No one asks to be born.

And no one is talking about leaving the mother "all alone holding the bag." Yes, obviously a father is involved too. And ironically he gets no say at all. If the mother wants to abort the baby and the father wants to keep it, too bad. If the mother wants to keep it and the father wants it aborted - again, too bad for the dad. This talk of dual responsibility is ridiculous.

And in the case the "father" leaves, runs after a one night stand, carelessness, heat of the moment, two ships passing in the night, then she is left holding the bag, alone scared, ashamed etc. What then? She has a choice, legal and not anybodys situation but hers. You've never had a one night stand, or a vacation tryst? Meet someone and a sudden infatuation leading to a quickie in a restroom at an airport on your travels? Accidents happen. Not saying I have or have not, but lust is lust. Condoms help but not all womens birth control are 100%. Whether it be the pill, implant, IUD etc etc.

CHOICE is what you make during that moment of sudden infatuation. You can make the decision in advance that you will avoid being in such a situation and if for some reason you end up there, you still have the CHOICE to go through with it or not. That’s where an abortion might be justifies — when the woman was raped and, thus, didn’t chose to do it.

your justifying abortion is the same as justifying child abuse.

When they make a decision that produces a life. Your third sentence makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah, when it comes to capital punishment, I'm pro death. At least I'm honest enough to own it.

Yeah, I'm sure all the 60 million abortions since 1973 were mostly because of failed birth control. You're talking small numbers there, like pregnancy through incest.

A good doc to watch is "Freakanomics", it discusses the economics of reduced crime rates in the late 80's n early 90's after abortion was made legal in the 70's, especially in the most poverished of citys like NY and Los Angeles.

Good point! Most rich far right conservatives are racist IMO so I don't understand them wanting to defund planned parenthood where most of the abortions are for minorities, poor minorities. They are racist but then they will end up with more minorities. Righty logic SMH

Soooo...
Lefty wanting minorties aborted = morally superior
Righty not wanting minorties aborted = Horrible virulent racist
Lefty logic :)

Rich racist righties wanting to defund planned parenthood just aren't thinking things through. You know the triple R's are out there.

Yeah, I just happened upon that doc one day, watched it, very interesting. They talk about alot of other subjects but that one got my attention. Was also during when Guliani was mayor of NY claiming he took care of crime in those days, but he wasn't mayor of LA when the same thing was going on.

And obviously you can't even /conceive/ of the logical idea that they want to defund planned parenthood because they're /not/ racist.

You know, the same planned parenthood that is a liberal tentpole?

Gosh, wait! If liberals /want/ planned parenthood, and most of the abortions planned parenthood does are for minorities, then by your own logic, /liberals/ are the racists!

The irony is... they ARE.

Nice try. Thanks for letting me see into your thought process.

I know, it's really disturbing to me how much I'm able to think like a liberal like you.

Good laugh. Thanks so much

Well let's break this down. You think the people who SHOULD want to keep planned parenthood funded are racist, because the vast majority of abortions are performed on minorities.

Therefore, by your own logic, that specifically implies that the people who DO want to keep planned parenthood funded (where the vast majority of abortions are performed on minorities) are racist.

At the very least, based on "liberal" narratives, the fact that the vast majority of abortions are performed on minorities is in and of itself racist. Therefore, those who wish to keep planned parenthood funded are racist by association. And it's NOT the conservatives trying to keep it funded.

(These are the same narratives that make the left call Trump a racist white supremacist simply because the KKK endorsed him)

I'll check it out, thx.

So murder is okay if it has economic and social benefits?

What you prolifers never take into account....is those 60m that were aborted not being able to abort and those 60 million turns into 180 million exponentially fast. Do a little math please. We have enough humans no need to add babies that aren't wanted to the mix

Just teasing you. It would be nicer if we had a society where pre martial sex was discouraged and responsibility was promoted instead of pushing degeneracy and abortion on demand. I actually feel bad for both the aborted babies and women who have been convinced that abortion is a viable answer to poor choices as alot suffer emotional and sometimes physical trauma afterwards, imo.

I agree it would be best to give up an unwanted baby for adoption.
I support a woman's choice.
Those that want to ban abortion just aren't thinking through all the unintended consequences. Imagine another 160 million in the workforce and the unemployment rate climbing to 10%. Chaos utter chaos and with the robots taking a lot of jobs in the future there isn't going to be many jobs available.

Then when are you going to praise Trump for not signing the UN migration pact?

Praise Trump? never. I am not even aware of what your refer to.

You know the Migration pact is just essentially trying to organize the mess that is the refugees fleeing from places right?

No, no one has to do anything. The oact is utterly voluntary and no one is forced into it. So while the declination of the Pact by the US is regrettable, there is not much one can do about it

If conjoined twins cannot be separated, they don't get to decide to kill the other twin because they don't want to use their body to keep the other alive.
In pregnancy the "conjoinment" and dependency is temporary and will resolve itself
I also don't feel that the kidney example is apt because there is a huge difference between actively killing someone and simply allowing them to die (not saving them).

To bad suicides illegal...
;)

If you succeed at committing suicide, do they arrest you and put you in the Cemetery jail???

:-)

How is a baby part of a woman’s body?

The amniotic sack, the umbilical cord, all formed from the linings of the uterus. You may have skipped one too many days of biology class.

And you say I’m the one who skipped biology class? Ha! If babies are part of the mother, then why can they have different blood types?

They share DNA along with the father. How do you think babies get their nutrition? Umbilical cord, you know, that part they cut when the baby is born.

So you’re saying the umbilical cord is part of the baby now?

What was once the umbilical cord would be your belly button now. Read a book.

[image deleted]Hypocrisy. Your first comment said the umbilical cord was part of the woman and now you’re saying this? Can you read your own responses?

Well it's bin 30 years since I took any biology classes, so here's my attempt at facing my own ignorance, the umbilical cord goes from fetus to placenta, there's a whole debate on whether the baby and mother are part of one another, I really dont care to get into, all I know is it's a womans choice and legal. There is another option in adoption, again her right to choose. Bottom line, her choice and that's where I stand. I don't however agree with late term, but that's not up to me.

And also, that would be a contradiction rather than hypocracy. Either way, not so.